Gripes About Gun Safeties

Not as condescending as usual, some educational stuff in this one:

My thoughts on the Glock part of the video:

Normally I believe everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but if you think carrying an empty gun for self defense is a good idea, and that you’ll “load it if you need it” I flat out believe you’re wrong.

Case in point – This jewelry store robbery.

You’ve got enough to worry about with the stress of having your life in the balance, why add another variable into the mix to bet your dexterity and coordination on?

Don’t even get me started about those IWB Glock clips… unless you’re carrying with a trigger block pushed in you’re just asking to eventually shoot yourself.   A good IWB leather/kydex holster is less than $100, is your life really worth that little that you’d risk it on an inferior piece of equipment?  Even with those trigger blocks, that still adds another step between you and placing a shot.

Ugh magazine disconnect safeties? LOL what a waste of time… Just what I want, for my gun not to be able to fire without a magazine in it *eye roll*

What are your thoughts on this?

67 COMMENTS

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flowmaster December 5, 2011 at 12:45 am

You don’t need to have a round in your Glock 19, but you do need to have both hands free to get a round in the chamber. In a stick up, you might not have both hands free. Pulling a loaded gun on a bad guy (ready to go bang with only one hand being used) seems like a better idea.

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Weer'd Beard December 5, 2011 at 03:10 pm

+1 also magazine disconnects are a nice way to get good people killed. You need to dick around with magazines to manipulate the gun and in the off chance your magazine gets bumped lose your gun is worthless.

Shame, he has some really good points and some really bad ones.

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Ernest Young December 5, 2011 at 03:38 pm

I hate mag-disconnect safeties. They inhibit certain types of training.

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Dave December 5, 2011 at 07:16 pm

The only reason to not be carrying a round in the chamber is if you are using the gangsta holster, i.e. stuffing the gun down your pants.

Also, I absolutely agree with Mike about a decent holster. Not only is it less prone to screw up, but some of those whack bolsters are a lot more dangerous when you are simply reholstering the gun and you have to get it in there with two hands. Those nylon tube socks scare me.

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Lance December 5, 2011 at 12:55 am

Agree 100%. Carry that baby lock n’ loaded or don’t carry it at all. Pointless to carry it without a round in the chamber. One more thing to do, one more thing to think about, one more thing to slow you down, one more thing that could go wrong before you need to fire your weapon. Just be smart like you should always be with any firearm.

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Lance December 5, 2011 at 12:57 am

Not to mention a situation where your left hand is immobile or in use.

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Andrew Sarchus December 5, 2011 at 01:41 am

Unless he is also loading his wheelguns one round short, there are quite a few that are not drop safe.

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Jeremy December 5, 2011 at 07:16 am

I like this guy, but he dropped a peg for suggesting a Glock should be left un-chambered, additionally it makes less sense, when he first says, safety is with your head, and finger; if so why be worried about having it chamber-properly because he is too cheap to buy a proper holster.

Mag-safties, dont get me started on their stupidity.

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jpcmt December 5, 2011 at 12:12 pm

Agreed, I thought he was going to advocate Condition 0 until he pulled the old “it’s this fast to cock and fire!” magic. Zzzzzzz. Then again, I don’t know if he’s got experience being under stress in a real fire fight and experience not failing to cock and fire his G19…and of course not having a disabled arm. So if he’s a combat proven vet who won’t fail to load his gun (losing half a second when time is life), then he’s all that and a bag of chips. I carry my G23 in Condition 0 because I actually do know that I may not have both hands to load it, and I don’t know if I’ll have the muscle memory to think about cocking it. I do agree that safeties are useless on a carry gun. I want my gun as offensive as possible. The Israeli military carry like this guy. Be nice to get honest data on how they’ve faired when in time-is-life pistol engagements.

Mag-safeties, I am ok with because it provides more pro than con…if you’re attacked and your gun is wrestled free from you but you can somehow dump that mag, the round in the chamber can’t be fire against you.

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Ernest Young December 6, 2011 at 02:37 pm

Yes, and if your attacker gets the mag dropped from your gun in a tussle (or you accidentally drop it because your panicked), then what?

(I guess then you can use your gun as an impact weapon (lol))

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Al T. December 5, 2011 at 07:17 am

Magazine disconnects are nice for rendering your handgun safe in case of a disarm. Fairly applicable for LEOs, not so much for regular folks. The empty chamber carry is delusional. Tend to see that with folks who have little or no training. If he had mentioned that he was chamber empty due to Mexican carry that would be better, but a decent holster (as noted) offers security and speed not found in your waistband.

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Dave December 5, 2011 at 07:19 pm

The idea that mag safeties are good for a disarm is ridiculous. If they are taking the gun out of your hand for some whack reason, you probably aren’t gonna have the dexterity to drop the mag in the process. You would also probably want to not shift your grip and make it easier for them.

I’m no operator operating in operational environments, I’m just trying to use some common sense here. This idea of dropping a mag is ridiculous.

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Crunkleross December 5, 2011 at 07:31 am

Could write a few pages about this one, so he starts out admitting to carrying no round in the chamber of the pistol with the best safety according to him? You might notice how high the muzzle is when he dry fires on the last demo of his technique. A really long video with practically no real information on the different types of safeties except that the individual person is responsible. Nothing about the pitfalls of the slide mounted safety for instance, nothing about how you can’t engage the safety on the AR and others unless they are cocked. Didn’t cover the 1911 except something in the background about thumb cocking, I bet I can guess how they would recommend to carry that one. Great beard and head cover though.

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Crunkleross December 5, 2011 at 07:34 am

Oh and to add after reading your comments on the Glock carry. How many times in the video do they rail about making it more complicated to operate your weapon……. but how does he carry his Glock?

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That Guy December 5, 2011 at 08:20 am

The more they talk, the less I like them. They need to stop making videos, because they are starting to look very dumb.

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DB327 December 5, 2011 at 10:31 am

+1

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45er December 5, 2011 at 10:37 am

Yep. I had agreed with a lot up to this point, but carrying chamber empty in a IWB clip pretty much kills it for me. The only thing I can imagine is there is liability recommending carrying chamber loaded, but seriously, it’s the same as carrying a revolver. If you don’t pull the trigger it won’t go boom.

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Christopher Harper December 6, 2011 at 01:17 pm

In addition to which, he referred to thumbing a 1911 hammer down, which is stupid for so many reasons.

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45er December 6, 2011 at 01:31 pm

I wish more people knew this. When I was much younger and just getting into handguns I listened to someone I thought I knew things and he recommended either not carrying a 1911 chambered or lowering the hammer to half-cock and thumbing it back on the draw. I know now both are ridiculous ways to carry, but the only ND I ever had was lowering the hammer on a 1911 after cleaning it. The oily hammer caused it to slip and BANG. Thankfully, I learned the lesson without anyone or anything getting hurt.

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DaveP. December 5, 2011 at 08:21 am

Carrying a Glock without a holster is just plain dumb. A Milt Sparks Summer Special runs just about $100 if you shop around and that’s a lot cheaper than having to go to the emergency room because you shot yourself in the leg.
Carrying ANY gun chamber-empty is no less dumb. A handgun is a right-here-and-now defensive weapon, not a can-you-wait-a-few-seconds one. If you have that little trust in your personal carry tool… maybe you should get something different. I carried a Ruger GP-100 for a bunch of years and would cheerfully recommend it to anyone who was so concerned about ND’s that they carried their Glock chamber-empty.

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TCDNV December 5, 2011 at 09:49 am

a) There are revolvers with safeties.
( http://www.thegunzone.com/webley-fosbery.html )

b) ANY revolver with a fixed firing-pin hammer can and probably has fired a round when dropped.

c) Magazine safeties have saved lives and standard police training on pistols equipped with one is to drop the magazine in case of a physical attack in order to render the pistol non-functional to the attacker. Additionally, my “house” gun is a S&W 4006 with one in the chamber and a loaded magazine near by but hidden separately making for a very safe and fast-into-action defensive gun!

I could go on but what is the point…

Everyone has and is entitled to their opinion! However, when you present yourself as an expert there are reasonable expectations and standards. In my opinion, these guys have completed missed the goal of education and are way into the land of ninja pontificating!

Safe and Happy shooting of your choice and style!
TCDNV

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Crunkleross December 5, 2011 at 10:45 am

You don’t have to go back to the Webley to find a revolver with a safety, lots of Taurus for example have a key lock on the hammer and S&W has the infamous Hillary hole.

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Ernest Young December 5, 2011 at 10:35 pm

Did you really just call the webley-fossberry a revolver, I mean yes, it has a cylinder, but it’s an auto.

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Vhyrus December 5, 2011 at 11:51 am

If you don’t WANT to use a safety DON’T USE IT, but for god’s sake don’t completely tear down a feature that has been on most weapons for well over a century now. The nice thing about manual safeties is that they are completely optional. You NEVER have to touch it unless you feel the need to. The same holds true for integral gun locks. I never thought I would ever want my guns locked but I ran into a situation recently where I had to lock up my guns and I was glad as hell I didn’t have to worry about my Tauruses (Tauri? Tauren?). These guys are trying to pass off their own opinions and anecdotal ignorance as expert advice and it’s really starting to tick me off.

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hnl.flyboy December 5, 2011 at 03:12 pm

It’s easy to say “don’t use it,” however, training will have to be different. Say you’re carrying a Ruger LC-9 and decided you don’t like the manual safety so you keep it always on fire. What happens if the safety accidentally gets bumped and activated? You’ll be pulling the trigger, freaking out as to why the gun won’t fire, especially while juiced with adrenaline. Because it DOES have a safety, you’ll always have to train yourself to flick it to fire, even though you leave it on fire.

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Will December 5, 2011 at 12:33 pm

I would have liked to see their thoughts about the AK series safety. What a shit show that thing is.

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jumpthestack December 5, 2011 at 12:48 pm

When the old guy suggested that a lady who wanted to keep her handgun loaded but safe from her toddler should leave the gun lying around with a round chambered but no magazine inserted and rely on the magazine disconnect safety, I had to yell ‘hell no!’. Yes, the off camera guy sort of tried to back off from that assertion, but still. I liked some of their other videos, but this one is really full of misinformation.

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Cameron December 5, 2011 at 01:00 pm

The easiest way to keep the gun safe is have the bedroom door locked with something a toddler CANNOT unlock, and something that autolocks. Like one of those six button code locks or something that locks whenever the door closes.

That’s the only way to solve the problem inherent in guns for self-defence: having a loaded gun that will save your life, while keeping your children safe from NDs.

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That Guy December 6, 2011 at 07:23 am

No, the easiest way is to keep it on your belt and in your control.

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Cameron December 6, 2011 at 09:29 am

I dunno about you, but sleeping with a gun on my belt might be a bit uncomfortable, and potentially dangerous. What if you roll over in your sleep, trigger snags on a sheet and goes off, for instance?

Some people also have different weapons for HD than they do for concealed carry. For example, I can’t CC a Mossberg 500.

(TBH I can’t CC at all, because the fucking Canadian Liberal party.)

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cc19 December 5, 2011 at 01:28 pm

My instructor emphasizes to have it unloaded if you are not using it. If you are carrying it for defensive purposes on your body, you are in fact, using it.

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spencer wade December 5, 2011 at 01:50 pm

thats just what we need a bunch of “my gun is my life” homos with one in the chamber. no one here has ever or will ever use their piece for anything more than marksmanship. you all think its “fun” to “Play” with guns. i was taught that guns are a “tool” and they only come out for work. so you keep carrying with hopes of using (sense yall wanna use it so bad there has to be one in the chamber) and shoot/kill someone and then spend the next 5 to 6 years and all the money you have keeping yourself out jail.

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ENDO-Mike December 5, 2011 at 01:59 pm

My eyes rolled so far into the back of my head when I read your comment it hurt. I’ve never had a gun just “go off” on me, and I really don’t see how the ones that I own one ever could unless I pulled the trigger.

I was taught that guns are a “tool” and they only come out for work.

Work? Are you a cop? If so, I highly doubt you carry your gun with an empty chamber. If not, then keep carrying around a useless heavy piece of metal if that’s what turns your crank. I suppose if you couldn’t get it loaded in time you could always use your last bit of dying strength to throw it at an attacker.

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cc19 December 6, 2011 at 06:25 pm

I think it’s time to start swinging the ENDO ban hammer. Troll or genuine CHUDville resident, he’s taking up valuable posting space!

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45er December 5, 2011 at 02:25 pm

What Mike said. Cue Spencer crying like a child when he’s confronted with a threat he can’t deal with because he wasn’t prepared with the right tool. It’s a situation I will not be in.

“shoot/kill someone and then spend the next 5 to 6 years and all the money you have keeping yourself out jail”

Look up Castle Doctrines. I won’t spend a dime or second in jail for dealing with a threat to my life and since no one on this forum is walking around shooting people at random, I believe they’ll be just fine too (and alive). Well, unless they live in Britain where you are arrested for defending your own home against violent criminals. Oh, I just realized Spencer probably is one. That makes total sense now. Why he carries for work and is so concerned about law-abiding citizens exercising their right to defend themselves.

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Jwhite December 5, 2011 at 03:19 pm

We have magazine disconnects in california. Some BS requirement. Unloaded Open Carry was legal, but as of next year is not. CCWs, better know as License To Carry are scarce in major metropolitan areas. You have a better chance of winning the lotto than getting a CCW/LTC here in Los Angeles. That or you better be forking over the dough at your local Scientology chapter and somehow become buddy buddy with our crooked ass Scientologist sheriff Lee Bacca. That said… I laughed when he said “Glocks are safe, I carry mine in Condition 03” Umm because the Glock isnt as safe when used in conjunction with a Glock IWB Clip. I agree with the Kydex/Poly IWB. Excellent point regarding deployment while engaged. Unless your some High Speed Low Drag creatine sweating God Tier operator, chances are you’ll fumble and if your lucky deploy without shooting your self.

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spencer wade December 5, 2011 at 03:29 pm

work is a play along word for tool. Work ie hunting for food,herdin animals, getting rid of varmints, hell I have used it to get someones attention. I dont carry a handgun cause they are worthless, i keep a rifle in the truck thou. and you guys get your rocks off to them. its prolly affecting your relations with the ladys. Am i right player ? and i never said anything about a gun “just going off”. its the kid that takes it from you and all he has to do is pull the trigger. No more ENDO and no one wants that.

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ENDO-Mike December 5, 2011 at 03:41 pm

We could make up “what if” scenarios for the rest of the day. Not carrying it loaded because a kid might somehow get it out of an IWB holster and shoot me or someone else with it is ridiculous. I know this is taking what you said out of context again, but you should probably look into why a kid’s hand is under your shirt inside your pants in the first place. LOL

Even in a OWB holster, if you have a decent one you’ll notice some 2 year old that snuck up on you trying to get the gun out because there is a good amount of retention.

And using a gun to get someones attention? *facepalm* I wouldn’t want to have to explain that to the cops.

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Ernest Young December 5, 2011 at 04:38 pm

“I dont carry a handgun cause they are worthless, i keep a rifle in the truck thou. and you guys get your rocks off to them. its prolly affecting your relations with the ladys. Am i right player ? ”

first off, you cant carry a rifle with you into most places. Secondly, a nice powerfull pistol is, IMO, just as effective as a rifle. Faster to draw and put in operation (if need be). Pistols are just as deadly

This just in. To all the people who have ever been killed with pistols; yes, EVERYone (criminals, soldiers, combatents, cops, innocents (kill by criminals)), you’re not really dead. You can just stop pretending and get out of your grave because Mr.SpencerWade has just informed us that “handguns are worthless” ( <- translate to ineffective ( <- read as; not lethal)).

Lastly, The "and you guys get your rocks off to them. its prolly affecting your relations with the ladys. Am i right player ?" comment.

Really, you think we sit around and diddle ourselves while looking at glocks? Are you SERIOUSLY implying this? And then the thing about it affecting our relationships, Methinks somebody is projecting a bit here. you can ask my finance about that one. we recently got engaged, I've been into gun (mainly handguns) for many years before I met her. She was not, but now that I've taken her shooting and taught her some stuff, she wants a P04 Luger Navy Model.

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GPAT December 6, 2011 at 04:27 pm

I bought my lady a G22 to defend her 90lb ass and we had a great time that night ;).

She also thinks it’s sexy that I capitalize the first word of every sentence and spell shit correctly.

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Ernest Young December 6, 2011 at 05:01 pm

+1 on the spelling.

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spencer wade December 5, 2011 at 05:56 pm

Wow. Now your future ex wife can kill herself too. especially with a luger. Smart. And everyone knows you can’t hit shit outside of 30 feet with a handgun. Keep taking ur guns to pizzahut and were ever else you go and feel tough its cool, I feel bad for y’all really only getting to shoot at the range it must suck. I could step outside right now and shoot a box of ammo I guess that’s why I just like guns and don’t get my jollies to em.

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Vhyrus December 5, 2011 at 06:39 pm

I can’t tell if you’re a Brady mole or some backwoods hick that was molested by a Glock as a child, but you sir have more issues than New York City newsstand. You might want to sell one of your truck guns and get some therapy. While you’re at it, get some English lessons at the community college. I’ll go ahead and end this now since it’s getting late and I want you to be able to read this before the branch library closes for the day.

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Ernest Young December 5, 2011 at 06:40 pm

“Wow. Now your future ex wife can kill herself too”
Not sure if carrying baggage, or just jealous?

“Keep taking ur guns to pizzahut and were ever else you go and feel tough its cool”
while I don’t do EDC (currently), I do think it’s a good idea. Are you saying that it’s impossible for someone threaten or take your life at pizza hut?
We had an incident HERE about a year ago (at a local pizza hut).
http://newworldorderreport.com/News/tabid/266/ID/5605/Robbery-suspects-shot-dead-by-east-Charlotte-Pizza-Hut-employee.aspx

“I guess that’s why I just like guns and don’t get my jollies to em.”
You keep mentioning this, a lot. Anyone else think maybe he’s projecting. Like a man with homosexual tendencies that calls everyone else a fag.

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paul kimble December 5, 2011 at 06:01 pm
Theblackknight December 5, 2011 at 06:19 pm

” And everyone knows you can’t hit shit outside of 30 feet with a handgun”

Without feeling like a braggart, I can confidently say I can keep rounds on a down 1 sized IDPA steel at 50m on the timer. Have you EVER shot a pistol? A good bit of the IDPA classifier is done from 10y and back.

I really do hope your just trolling. I hope no one is that dumb.

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Bryan December 5, 2011 at 07:44 pm

I was looking forward to seeing where the 1911 was going to rate in his pantheon; i figure he didn’t want to touch that sacred cow. And where is my favorite safety system the P7? I’ve always thought very highly of the P7 as one of the safest pistols to carry.

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DB327 December 7, 2011 at 12:37 pm

I, too, was confused that they didn’t touch the 1911 or seem to make any serious distinction between slide mounted and frame mounted safeties.

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spencer wade December 5, 2011 at 08:18 pm

1/1/11 wedding date greene county sgf, mo. May 14 2010 grad. Missouri State University, accounting, COBA ( college of bus. admin.) one of the most prestiages programs in the country. real name, no gimmicks. look it up. did I mention my wife was finishing pharmancy school? harding university. daananana daananana (sportscenter big play theme)

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Vhyrus December 5, 2011 at 08:37 pm

prestiages, eh? Might want to get a refund on that awesome degree before they read this and come to take it back. I hope to christ you’re trolling cause you definitely are not making yourself look any better.

FYI, the word is prestigious. 1 e, 2 i’s, no a’s.

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Vhyrus December 5, 2011 at 08:55 pm

BTW, you might want to tell your wife that pharmancy school is a waste of time… most people I know use pharmacies these days. Just trying to help.

oh yeah, how did that go again? daa-na-naa? Oh, you silly backwoods folk and your cute sayings!

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45er December 5, 2011 at 09:17 pm

Like Dave, I’m not an operator operating operationally. I’m also not a professor professing to profess anything, but “prestiages”? Really? Endo and Vhyrus, I do believe a new word has been created to denigrate trolls.

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ENDO-Mike December 5, 2011 at 09:34 pm

haha awesome.

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Vhyrus December 5, 2011 at 09:38 pm

Would you then say that you are neither a professor professing professionally nor an operationally operating operator? I just want to make sure I have the story straight.

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45er December 5, 2011 at 09:48 pm

I’m neither a professor nor professional operator professing to operate in operations. Just to be clear.

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Theblackknight December 5, 2011 at 08:47 pm

Why would someone acting soo stupid give away soo much personal info over the internet?

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Vhyrus December 5, 2011 at 08:56 pm

Whenever theblackknight and I can agree on something, you KNOW you must be doing it wrong…. very wrong.

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spencer wade December 5, 2011 at 09:07 pm

thanks MS word. BTW you misspelled VIRUS. and its Daananana Daananana. dipshit. I hope my wedding and Graduation date dont come back to haunt me. lol

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Ernest Young December 5, 2011 at 10:43 pm

ROFLMAO
Man, just seeing the shit you type makes me laugh every-time.
I mean the thought of someone actually sitting around in there crummy basement lying about all this stuff for no reason other than to win a silly argument in the first place.
It’s fuckin’ hilarious.
Dude, you try WAY to hard.

Hey kid, guess what, no mater how many arguments you win on the internet, or lies you tell. Your still going to have to go to school. Deal with bullies (most everyone does at some point in middle/high) and take EOC or SAT/ACT test.

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spencer wade December 6, 2011 at 12:59 pm

way off. Im upstairs.

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Brandon December 5, 2011 at 11:31 pm

GUYS! IF WE IGNORE IT, MAYBE IT’LL GO BACK TO LIVING UNDER THE BRIDGE.

But seriously though, I can’t tell if troll or srs. LOL

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cc19 December 6, 2011 at 02:00 am

Please don’t stop. I think we’re due for a second coming of Gecko45 and you’re on the right path.

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Jeff December 6, 2011 at 01:07 pm

good god you’re a troll, no matter how old you are, you’re being a dipshit, so please: talk firearms, not politics

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DB327 December 7, 2011 at 12:41 pm

I’m not sure I agreed with anything they said on this video. Admittedly, I stopped paying a lot of attention when they started advocating for Condition 3 carry. Thanks for the counter-point video of the jewelry store robbery. I used it as a demonstration, albeit a very graphic one, to advocate Condition 1/2 carry to my friends.

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45er December 7, 2011 at 05:54 pm

Here’s another great video and it’s going to take on two issues discussed above. A. Condition 3 carry (though not as dramatically as ENDO’s jewelry store robbery) and B. magazine disconnects. Watch as he has to chamber a round and in doing so drops the magazine. If, by some miracle he chambered a round before the magazine dropped, a mag disconnect makes this a very bad situation. Doing too many things under high stress leads to bumbling and fumbling you cannot afford.

http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/national_world&id=8019249

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ObsidianOne December 13, 2011 at 02:44 am

Did he seriously say that the only way to discharge a revolver is by pulling the hammer all the way back? And what happens if you drop said revolver/falls out of a bad holster/gets thrown by a retard/etc. and the hammer is struct with enough force to puncture a primer? Unless it’s a modern revolver (I know Ruger has the transfer bar, not sure about other companies) it’ll go bang.

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Ernest Young December 13, 2011 at 12:13 pm

Transfer safety bars are an older idea they’ve been around for at least 60 years. I know my mothers old H&R .32 revolver has a transfer safety bar (and I know old Smith and Wesson revolvers had them to).

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