The Lord Wants Weapons Turned Into Plowshares

Found on a church door:

Source – Althouse

Is that sign legally binding?  Probably not…

As much as people would like to think so, church is not some magical place immune to violence.

Thoughts?

55 COMMENTS

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Nate February 8, 2012 at 12:44 am

Let’s start off the questionable-context-scripture-quote-athon with this:

Psalm 144:1 Blessed be the LORD my strength which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight.

Searching further, I found this, which has got to be the best Biblical support of the 2nd Amendment, EVER:

Isaiah 10:15 Will the axe say high-sounding words against him who is using it, or the blade be full of pride against him who is cutting with it? As if a rod had the power of shaking him who is using it, or as if a stick might take up him who is not wood.

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bbmg February 8, 2012 at 12:53 am

That last one is the biblical version of “Guns don’t kill people, people do” :D

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bbmg February 8, 2012 at 12:48 am

http://www.evilbible.com/Murder.htm

You could just as easily found quotes from the bible to support, nay oblige the killing everyone inside the Church.

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Poppy February 8, 2012 at 12:48 am

Isn’t this the same God who condones genocide? I really don’t think he has a beef with guns.

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lucusloc February 8, 2012 at 01:33 am

those who beat their swords into plowshares shall be ruled by those who don’t, so go buy yourself a sword.

see Luke 22:36

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Aaron February 9, 2012 at 09:17 pm

First rule of swordfighting: bring a sword. Second rule: bring an extra sword. Third rule: bring lots of friends with swords…

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Vhyrus February 8, 2012 at 01:50 am

I would pump 12 rounds into the ground and say “There! I tilled it for ya… now PLANT SOMETHING!”

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Tom February 8, 2012 at 04:53 am

Fools. I’d point out that good people will obey that silly sign, and the bad people you need to worry about, won’t. And you won’t have any of the good people around who might have helped you then, either. It’s your funeral, as they say.

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xpo172 February 8, 2012 at 06:46 am

Where else can you find a few hundred people with their backs to the door.

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JohnTheBaptist February 9, 2012 at 03:10 pm

Thats why the Preacher should put a gun behind the Pulpit, because he would be the only one looking that way.

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MROD February 8, 2012 at 07:27 am

Apparently someone at that church thinks we are living in the millennial age where Jesus has returnee to rule over the earth from Israel and there aren’t any need for weapons at that point. Well, at least criminals know everyone there doesn’t have a gun.

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Frank February 8, 2012 at 07:29 am

Churches and holy grounds aren’t immune to violence.
Real life isn’t Highlander.

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Aaron February 9, 2012 at 09:15 pm

Awesome comment! :)

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Bear February 8, 2012 at 07:47 am

My uncle goes to church armed…because the only car break in he’s ever had, was in the parking lot of his church.

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Bear February 8, 2012 at 07:48 am

Oh and PS, a plowshare could probably be used to hit someone.

Better question: Why would you want a bunch of plowshares in your church? Trolololol.

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overkill556x45 February 8, 2012 at 08:04 am

In some states signs like this are binding in that if the owner or an employee finds out you have a ‘weapon’, they can ask you to leave and if you don’t go, they can call the cops and make you go. In my home state, these signs are not binding in any legal sense, though the management can ask you to leave for carrying, and it’s probably best to just go if you’ve been “caught”.

Once, I was taking my grandpa to the grocery store and there was a big fat sign on the front door. It showed a stainless Beretta 92 with the circle and line through it, but no words of any kind. I thought to my self “The sign clearly says “No Beretta 92s””. I was carrying an M&P9c and didn’t figure the sign applied to me. Also, since I’m not retarded, no one figured out that I was carrying.

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Tuna Pirate February 8, 2012 at 03:40 pm

Not to be a tool but I believe that in any state an owner or employee can ask you to leave, sign or not, and call the cops if you refuse. Property rights and trespass…

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overkill556x45 February 8, 2012 at 05:07 pm

You are correct, sir. However, only certain states (MO comes to mind) can assess a fine based on your carrying in a shop/private property where it is forbidden with an approved sign. Anyone can ask you to leave, but it isn’t technically a criminal trespass until certain other criteria are met (at least in the state where I was a cop).

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DaveP. February 8, 2012 at 05:11 pm

NC too. The property owner can post no CCW, and ask you to leave if you’re carrying.

Which is why most of us don’t go to posted businesses. I have been known to call them up and thenk them for accepting unlimited legal responsibility for my safety while I’m on their premesis, though… amazing how quickly those signs get rethought when that tidbit gets pointed out.

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RockRavn February 8, 2012 at 08:17 am

I attend a synagogue in Dallas and back in ’97 we had a new-released convict join us with an AK to try and do some damage. Thankfully, no was hurt by the good L-rd’s providence. Now, there are probably 25 different men and women with CHLs spread out over the sanctuary. L-rd help the next time someone tries to cause some trouble. These Jews don’t take no shit. ; )

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Frank February 8, 2012 at 09:04 am

+1 for your shul!!

The shul I go to doesn’t allow firearms, because there is an armed guard and that is considered “sufficient”. Obviously the people in charge have no regard or skills in strategy.

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Ray February 8, 2012 at 09:55 am

That lard really helped y’all out.

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DaveP. February 8, 2012 at 05:12 pm

Good on ya, mate.

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Cameron February 8, 2012 at 08:30 am

After reading a story about how a doctor who preformed abortions had a man walk up to him, in the middle of a church service, and execute him in his pew, I think it should be a necessity to carry guns to church.

Religious extremists of ANY religion can be dangerous.

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Heath February 8, 2012 at 08:46 am

Here in my home state that sign would be legally binding; we can only carry in churches with the consent of that church.

Personally I’d exercise my right to worship in another church.

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RockRavn February 8, 2012 at 09:14 am

We have a police officer who patrols around the premises during services, which is an excellent thing to have. However, it’s my preference to have armed personnel s who don’t necessarily exude deadly force walking the premises as well.

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dennis February 8, 2012 at 09:39 am

I am so glad my church is cool with concealed carry. Heck, just about every Sunday after the sermon it’s Gun show and tell in the parking lot!

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Josh February 8, 2012 at 09:56 am

Hmmm… If the church won’t respect the second amendment, why should it benefit from the first, and the tax exempt status that it receives? I’ve seen enough churches that look like royal palaces to make me think religion has become a money making enterprise for many.

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Heath February 8, 2012 at 10:16 am

Interesting point, Josh. I’ve never considered that before but is an excellent question that I’d love to see directed at the administrators in the building where that sign was posted.

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CR Pyro February 8, 2012 at 10:23 am

In Texas that sign would be nice and all, but not binding on anyone. See Texas Penal Code section 30.06 (heh, I still snicker when I think about that) which states that a person has to be told, orally or via sign at the entrance of the building stating “Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code (trespass by holder of license to carry a concealed handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (concealed handgun law), may not enter this property with a concealed handgun.” This sign must be in both English and Spanish, at least 1″ letters, and in contrasting colors for it to be valid.

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mikee February 8, 2012 at 11:43 am

I am also here in Texas, thank God, and the “no beretta” silhouette sign is pasted on my local credit union’s front door. I asked the manager about it. She said the facilities manager from headquarters required that exact sign, and that several tellers had asked her about it as well. Which tells me there are CHLs among the tellers there! So +1 for my credit union! They know how to make anti-gunner “feeeeeeeeel” all good about themselves, while allowing licensed law abiding handgun carriers to continue going about their lawful business.

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Doug February 8, 2012 at 12:55 pm

As a Christian, and one who frequently attends church, I see it my duty to be able to defend those who cannot. Some may argue that even though I know where I’m going if I die, the attacker may not. I argue that with not knowing the attacker’s intentions (even if he’s stated his intentions how is he believable). He may intend on killing as many people as he can, people that may not be prepared to meet their Maker. I would rather risk sending a murderer to meet God than have the murderer send many more (who aren’t murderous) to meet God who just might not have come to the point of salvation. My pastor and I probably disagree with each other on this topic, but some pastors see it differently as I do. If my church put this sign up I would still carry into church and I believe others in my congregation would too. The verse is also taken out of context. Isaiah 2 talks about God judging the nations and the nations making their swords into plowshares. It’s not the church’s job to make plows, or make others make plows, especially out of swords/guns.

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CK February 9, 2012 at 08:55 am

Doug, I agree. As a Jesus follower and a former Youth Pastor I believe that it is not only my right but an obligation to protect my family and others if the occasion arises. Paul writes that, “As far as it is up to you, live at peace with others.” I take that to heart, I don’t go looking for trouble and I treat others with respect but if evils comes to my doorstep I will do everything I can do to protect mine. Churches that take the pacifist stance obviously missed the Old Testament. I don’t want to go into a long theological discourse but Jesus was not the meek and mild man that so many believe him to be. He was a peaceful man but he was known to toss a table or two when needed.

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Doug February 10, 2012 at 02:06 pm

Well said. Nehemiah also threatened people that were corrupting the Israelites when they were rebuilding Jeruselam that he would “lay hands on them” if they continued to do evil.

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Ernest Young February 8, 2012 at 02:49 pm

I want to walk in there with a plowshare slung over my back.
I’d love to see the looks I get.

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Josh February 8, 2012 at 03:44 pm

That would be fun, but not fun enough to get me to go to church.

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Clay February 8, 2012 at 04:57 pm

As a Church-going man myself I can say that most Churches allow concealed carry and even open carry. People should rely on God to protect them, but sometimes he uses someone like us instead of a lightning bolt to take care of the baddies.

Basically don’t pray for God to save you from drowning and then refuse the guy in the lifeboat’s help.

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Josh February 8, 2012 at 05:31 pm

…don’t pray for God to save you from drowning and then refuse the guy in the lifeboat’s help.

I can picture it – “Thanks but no thanks buddy. No need to throw that life preserver… God’s going to be here any second…” *burble, burble, burble…*

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Ernest Young February 8, 2012 at 06:26 pm

There is an old joke about a guy on his roof in a flood, who refuses 3 peoples help (a car, then a boat, and then a helicopter). When he gets to heaven (after dying) he ask god why he didnt save him. God says “I sent you people to save you 3 different times”.

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estwing February 8, 2012 at 05:25 pm

“I’m a lead farmer, m***********r!”

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Jusuchin (Military Otaku) February 8, 2012 at 06:04 pm

Luke 22:36

And He said to them, “But now, [a]whoever has a money belt is to take it along, likewise also a bag, and [b]whoever has no sword is to sell his [c]coat and buy one.”

-New American Standard Bible

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Jusuchin (Military Otaku) February 8, 2012 at 06:06 pm

AKA: A biblical example of lawful self defense. With Jesus about to leave, the miraculous power that had spared the Apostles from harm would be leaving, and it is customary to defend oneself, especially when not in Judea.

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Josh February 8, 2012 at 07:58 pm

Maybe a person should just carry their weapon in there and point out that in Joel 3:10, the Bible says, “Beat your plowshares into swords,
and your pruning hooks into spears;”

The great thing about the Bible is that it seems that for nearly any controversial issue there is support for both sides of it. If you don’t like what the Bible says about an issue, just keep reading and you’ll find support for your position.

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CK February 9, 2012 at 09:00 am

“The great thing about the Bible is that it seems that for nearly any controversial issue there is support for both sides of it. If you don’t like what the Bible says about an issue, just keep reading and you’ll find support for your position.”

Not really, context is key, the vast majority of Bible verses cannot stand alone. Anyone can take one verse out of context to support their belief. That’s how cults start.

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Josh February 9, 2012 at 03:13 pm
estwing February 8, 2012 at 08:01 pm

I tried beating my Glock into a plowshare, but all I got was a mess of mashed-up metal and some broken shards of polymer. Couldn’t plow so much as a flowerpot with it.

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DaveP. February 8, 2012 at 08:43 pm

See, you’re doing it wrong. You should be pointing the Glock at some other mook and making HIM plow.

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Josh February 8, 2012 at 08:55 pm

No no no. You shouldn’t be using the kind of plow that uses a plowshare anyway – they turn over too much topsoil and lead to terrible erosion. Keep it up and all our fertile farm land will be in the Gulf of Mexico. If you’re going to till your field, use a chisel plow – which uses little arrow shaped things called “sweeps,” or a disk ripper – which uses a combination of disk blades and several long tines that penetrate the ground with “shanks” attached to them.

The pastor who posted this sign must have no concern for our environment and the ground that produces the food that he and his congregation eats. Environmentally insensitive prick.

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Peturbo February 9, 2012 at 12:32 am

Eric Shelton did a good podcast on this subject, Handgun Podcast # 129.

Out of couriosity, where was this church from, and was denomination is it?

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Ernest Young February 9, 2012 at 11:34 am

I used to listen to those too.
Too bad he stopped.

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Perturbo February 10, 2012 at 12:17 pm

He may be doing some more… I heard his girlfriend talk about it on the Gun Dudes.

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plblark February 9, 2012 at 01:17 pm

In Wisconsin, as long as it’s 5″x7″, the wording doesn’t matter, and it’s legally binding :-(

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Aaron February 9, 2012 at 09:18 pm

Interesting story of a pawn shop owner in Florida who was attacked by a sword wielding maniac:

http://armslocker.com/gun-rights/25966-sword-vs-handgun-real-life-mess.html

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Steve P February 10, 2012 at 11:27 am
ASM826 February 10, 2012 at 11:04 pm

If you don’t think a metal plowshare is a weapon, you haven’t been paying attention. It’s not a great weapon, not my first choice, but I sure don’t want to get attacked with one, how about you?

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