CCW Caliber Debate

All handgun cartridges suck, some less than others:

Almost 15 minutes long, but a good discussion that touches on some great points.

Highjak86 and his buddy make some damn good videos.  The title of the series “TacShorts” always throws me off though because I think it’s going to be something funny involving actual shorts.

Highjak, I know there’s probably a lot of pressure to be funny, but you guys should come out with some more vids like the Most Tactical AR-15 Ever, and the Most Tactical Loadout Ever.   Those were instant internet classics!

19 COMMENTS

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Keith April 25, 2012 at 12:03 am

That guy is in desperate need of some new socks

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Steve069 April 25, 2012 at 12:26 am

Good vid! I agree with pretty much everything.

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The Juno April 25, 2012 at 02:10 am

Isn’t one of the arguments for .40-caliber is t hat it penetrates vehicles and vehicle glass better?

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Lance April 25, 2012 at 11:06 am

I think I fully finished the annotations as of yesterday. I annotated that .40 is better against hard targets than 9mm which is why I can see police officer carrying it. However, CCW != Policeman.

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Rickenbacker April 25, 2012 at 02:47 am

Yes, but without watching the video, I’ll wager that their argument is that handguns in general suck, since they’re designed to be easy to carry, rather than to actually be effective. THey’re always a compromise, no matter what caliber, and will always be worse than long guns when it comes to shooting things.

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Jeep April 25, 2012 at 07:23 am

Their “tactical” videos remind me of Evike Matt’s “Mo’ Molle mo’ problems” (easy to find on youtube), making fun of the overloadout of some airsoft players…

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Curtis April 25, 2012 at 10:12 am

One way I evaluate a handgun is whether the caliber is appropriate to the size of the gun. I.e. 9mm is a perfect size for a small Kahr, but a duty sized handgun in 9 would be a waste, because 40 or 45 or10 would be practically as easy to shoot with it. That said, a well designed bullet is even more important than caliber. Good video.

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Lance April 25, 2012 at 11:05 am

I’m just now noticing you posted this up here. Awesome! I know, we need to get on some more funny videos, none of them are really planned they just kind of happen. You can’t rush greatness!

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tha guy April 25, 2012 at 11:56 am

I was intrigued until they said .45 gap is slower. Most of the Glock armorer instructors I talk to rant and rave about how effective .45 gap is.
.45 GAP
Bullet weight/type Velocity Energy
185 gr (12.0 g) Gold Dot JHP 1,150 ft/s (350 m/s) 543 ft·lbf (736 J)
200 gr (13 g) Gold Dot JHP 1,050 ft/s (320 m/s) 490 ft·lbf (660 J)
230 gr (15 g) Gold Dot JHP 935 ft/s (285 m/s) 447 ft·lbf (606 J)
230 gr (15 g) FMJ-FP 940 ft/s (290 m/s) 451 ft·lbf (611 J)
.45ACP
Bullet weight/type Velocity Energy
165 gr (10.7 g) Federal Premium Low Recoil JHP 1,060 ft/s (320 m/s) 412 ft·lbf (559 J)
185 gr (12.0 g) Bonded Defense 1,225 ft/s (373 m/s) 616 ft·lbf (835 J)
200 gr (13 g) Speer Gold Dot JHP +P 1,080 ft/s (330 m/s) 518 ft·lbf (702 J)
230 gr (15 g) Federal Hydra-Shok 900 ft/s (270 m/s) 414 ft·lbf (561 J)

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Lance April 25, 2012 at 12:12 pm

The fastest I’ve seen a 230gr GAP is around 880fps and the fastest I’ve seen a 230gr 45ACP is close to 1000fps. Will 45GAP do the job? Probably, but like we said, there have been issues with penetration with the 45ACP when encountering multiple layers of clothing. Your overall capacity is not increasing with the GAP either. Like we said, why do you want to make the 45ACP slower when it’s already slow? Over penetration is not an issue for us. Just our personal opinion.

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Josh April 25, 2012 at 01:40 pm

Umm..compare IN YOUR OWN POST the 185 grain bullet velocities…

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Jessie April 25, 2012 at 10:17 pm

Thought it was pretty good but rambled a little too long. And please, if you’re going to talk about gunfighting, have some source or personal experience to back it up.

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Lance April 25, 2012 at 10:22 pm

Does a Combat Vet count?

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Dom P. April 26, 2012 at 05:45 pm

No. Considering the only pistol caliber you touched was a 9mm.

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Lance April 26, 2012 at 07:41 pm

The thought that if you have “no personal experience” with using a handgun in a defensive situation means you can’t comment on how well these perform, is ridiculous. No one would be talking about any of this if that were the case. Do you believe everyone who does ballistics tests spent time in the military?

Sources are all over the place that support everything that is said in this video. So, there is the second part of the “have some source”.

My military experience supports all of these philosophies that this whole CCW debate is based on. You don’t have to be a rocket scientist to understand what is important to get yourself out of a gunfight as fast as possible or to eliminate a threat.

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Josh April 28, 2012 at 10:58 am

Umm…gonna have to go with Lance on this one… According to Dom’s Premise, All the LE agencies that carry (still) 9mm stuff, their experiences are invalid, since “The only pistol caliber you touched was 9mm”, additionally, all the Combat experience before we adopted the M9 must be moot, since they only worked with the .45 ACP, and are therefore, by definition, myopically hamstrung as far as experience… Same goes for the FBI, USSS, etc etc…since they only use one service caliber.

I guess Dom P. must be some sort of wandering SF-Navy SEAL-Royal Marine Commando-Para Rescue Ninja to have so much breadth and depth of experience of shooting every handgun load available in every situation imaginable and in every defensive scenario. Truly, we are in the presence of greatness…

If you hike a 9mm cuz thats what Big Army or The Marines gave you, you should immediately complain to your Commander, and he’ll give you the secret stash of (1911’s/5.7s/Glocks/Combat 12 ga./Rotary-Multi Barrel, Belt Fed laser guided RPG’s) he’s been hoarding since D-Day, and compliment you on your cleverness and good taste in firearms..I’m sure he’ll cough up whatever other weapons most of the Mall Ninjas on here think are Acti-cool too…Pistol Knives, Zombie guns, Etc. ad infinitum… I can’t wait to put my Chainsaw Flare gun Sword in my drop holster and go check some ID’s at USAEUR…

No, Dom, youre right…like all the RTO’s that were rolling House to House with 2nd BN 5th Mar in Fallujah, 9mm M9 experience in NO WAY enables you to talk intelligently about shooting dudes to death with a hand gun…*DERP*

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Jess Banda April 28, 2012 at 12:25 pm

Not necessarily including these guys, but the vast majority of people who mention the 40 S&W being “snappier,” than other rounds, all look like the heaviest thing they’ve ever lifted in their lives was an Xbox controller. It’s called “strength training,” Google it.

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Jess Banda April 28, 2012 at 12:27 pm

BTW, it how does the recoil of a 9mm +P or +P+, compare to the 40S&W? I’ve only shot regular 9mm, just curious.

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arkansas dave rudabaugh November 6, 2012 at 02:05 am

They all sound kool but all i use are potatoe guns, loaded with premium fresh idaho taters. Shot a mall ninja right in the ass with it, while he was tellin everyone that he carries a 1911 n still cant get laid, so he thinkin bout buyin a glock. Good times.

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