Buck Yeager And Some Other Dude On Open VS Concealed Carry

These guys make some good points:

So yeager carries 3 guns all the time… now THAT is operator.  I bet he’s got multiple backup mags too.

Interesting how they say they don’t know any police officers that open carry off duty… that’s gotta say something about the value of blending in.

I still don’t think a good reason to conceal carry is to protect the feelings of the pansies out there that shit their pants with fear when they see a firearm.  If it’s legal, get used to it and quit wasting the time of the police if the person isn’t doing anything that would suggest they are going to harm anyone.

I know this topic has been beaten to death… but thoughts?

39 COMMENTS

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Jesse July 21, 2012 at 01:19 am

Buck Yeager, that is classic, almost as scary as that cat shirt.

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James M&P July 21, 2012 at 01:47 am

Tired of hearing this argument.

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markofafreeman July 21, 2012 at 01:57 am

I won’t even watch this video. Put a cameraman downrange of where people are shooting, and then put out ANOTHER video defending it, and lose all credibility. Period.

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AKFTW July 21, 2012 at 02:59 am

CCW is better, don’t show your ace until you need to play it.

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Quint Young July 21, 2012 at 06:25 am

Exactly.

You can appear as a sheep but if the time comes you can then be as ferocious as a wolf.

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BrowningBottoms July 21, 2012 at 08:21 am

Decent video. Just needs more gunfire.

Can’t say I agree with walking around like you’re ready to kill, sending off a “don’t fuck with me” vibe. Opposites attract. Some 4ft drunk will try you if you look intimidating. That can set you up to overreact and lose your mental clarity. We do have laws, ya know. If you look at nature’s best killers, they don’t really appear dangerous. They just are. Being natural and enjoying life is more important than putting on a show and trying to be something you’re not. Mimics may be successful half of the time, but when they finally meet a real threat, all of the colors and hoaxes won’t save them. If you’re 6’9″ 350lbs you don’t have to act like it. You just are.

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Rob July 21, 2012 at 09:08 am

I don’t like the “1 in 5 police officers are murdered with their own weapon” quote. I’m pretty sure 1 in 5 aren’t murdered at all. But it sounds alarming as all hell.

He should have said “1 in 5 police officers that are killed in the line of duty are killed with their own weapon.”

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dave w July 21, 2012 at 05:46 pm

Thats probably beacause those officers were carrying glocks, and we all know glocks are just waiting till you let you guard down so they can shoot you in the face.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIacHpPNzOA&feature=plcp

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ExurbanKevin July 21, 2012 at 09:20 am

I usually carry discretely (a much better term, IMO, as “concealed” implies you have something illicit to hide), but I have open-carried on occasion and support doing so. There’s a reason why we have Constitutional Carry here in Arizona: it’s much easier for CCW to prosper if the state has a background of open carry, and we’ve had OC in AZ before we were a state.

Also, it’s easier for CCW holders if we don’t have to worry about ridiculous “brandishing” laws and can just go about our business not worrying if we flash a bit of bang-bang to those around us.

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PJ July 21, 2012 at 10:30 am

Oddly enough the ONLY people I know who open carry are sheriff’s deputies, on and off duty.

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Croppedxout July 21, 2012 at 10:45 am

UGH. At 1:38 the pause button was pressed.

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Weer'd Beard July 21, 2012 at 10:51 am

It doesn’t matter HOW you carry, there is ALWAYS the possibility of an accidental exposure of the gun, so we are ALL open carry, weather we plan to or not.

Also if people NEVER see people carrying, they might be convinced that most people DON’T carry.

These dudes are full of crap.

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Bryan July 21, 2012 at 11:12 am

I’d have less of a problem with open carry, if open carry required a permit and if people open carrying were required to present that permit upon request by an LEO.

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cc19 July 21, 2012 at 12:00 pm

Where’s the issue exactly?

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paul kimble July 21, 2012 at 04:19 pm

achtung!! your papers, please.

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Theblackknight July 21, 2012 at 12:14 pm

So james yeager wont call you names, but he will ban you from his gay tac timmy GOTX forum for simply not agreeing with him.

James Yeager is irrelevant to anything because he’s proved himself to be a unsafe retard and carries 3 FUCKING GUNS.

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Jess Banda July 21, 2012 at 04:10 pm

The quote “guns aren’t meant to be comfortable, but comforting,” is attributed to Clint Smith, not Jeff Cooper.

Thanks for playing…

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Lt.Fenix July 21, 2012 at 04:26 pm

Shoulder roll.

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Robert July 21, 2012 at 06:08 pm

Personally I don’t get all the hate for J.Y. He’s got a job, he enjoys it, he hasn’t shot anyone training (Yet, has he?) seems he’s trying to get some info out there for folks who are interested. Like all INFO, it’s dissected and parsed and disputed regardless of if it’s good or not.

Carrying 3 guns? Shit, that’s prepared if ya ask me.

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Jim P. July 22, 2012 at 01:09 am

The 1 in 5 statistic from google:

Fifty-one officers were killed when their department-issued firearms or another officer’s gun were turned against them.

That’s out of 511 gun deaths over 10 years. Or an average of 51 gun deaths per year for LEO. Googling gave me a number of 765,000 sworn officers in 2008. Calling it as 500 deaths / 765,000 LEO = 0.000653594771 average. So if a cop goes to work his chance of dying in the line of duty is somewhere on the same chances of you dying going to your office job.

So the one in five is such a statistical anomaly that I would look at it in context. LEO is charged with going into “the fire” not running away like the civilians. So a gun grab is just more likely.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2010/11/robert-farago/washington-post-more-cops-killed-by-their-own-gun-than-straw-purchases/

Now the one the bothered me extensively: Even if you live in a state where the gun buster signs are not legally enforceable, from the sounds of it here they both routinely ignore it while carrying concealed.

What gives them the right to blithely ignore the property rights of the owner with their second amendment rights? I live in a state that they are enforceable, but I would try to honor them regardless.

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Nate July 23, 2012 at 03:48 pm

The people in CO obeyed the “gun free zone” laws and look where they are today. I would rather pay the fine for carrying in a prohibited area, than have a police officer have to show up at my door to tell my wife I had been killed while my gun was locked in my car.

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thebronze July 22, 2012 at 02:45 am

When he said “I carry three guns”, I took that to mean that he has three guns that he carries, not that he carries three guns at the same time.

But that’s just me.

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Mark July 23, 2012 at 04:15 pm

Same here.

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k.rollin July 22, 2012 at 03:35 am

They start by saying that open carry is okay is it is your only legal recourse to be be armed in public, then go on to say that open carry is banned in California because the open carriers of California were not behaving appropriately. I guess they don’t realize that California is a may-issue state, and permits to carry concealed can be very difficult to obtain. Really, the California Open Carry movement was armed in the only legal manner allowed to them because the discretion of the CLEOs made concealed carry illegal for them. Way to contradict yourselves guys.

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PPGMD July 22, 2012 at 12:39 pm

By making a big fuss about it, they put themselves on the radar of the anti gunners. They were the nail that stuck up.

If they kept a low profile open carry might still be carry in California.

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Ray Curtis July 22, 2012 at 03:23 pm

I agree that concealed is the only way to go, except if you want people to know for a purpose. As for movie theater crazies, the first people they’ll aim for are the ones they noticed were carrying.
I’m surprised that there was nobody armed in that place but the crazy guy. I bet that’ll change…or maybe the TSA will start screening moviegoers too?

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Will July 22, 2012 at 09:09 pm

About the TSA screening moviegoers like Ray Curtis predicts, that can easily be a private/government cooperation. Just allow the MPAA to search moviegoers for video cameras in exchange for them searching for guns as well. They’d jump at the chance, at no cost for the government :p

But yeah, I agree. Concealed carry is the way to go, even when it comes to deterrent. A dude open-carrying is a known quantity. He can be planned for and dealt with. If you want to be the first one shot, by all means, open carry. Noone draws faster than the element of surprise, no matter how vigilant a spectre you are, and the gunman will simply maneuver in behind you before drawing his weapon and opening fire.
Mass concealed carry means that any member of your selected victim group could be carrying, you’ll just never know which one. That raises the bar significantly. Remember, most massacres happen in gun-free zones, where the perps know no law-abiding citizens are carrying.

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Jim P. July 22, 2012 at 09:19 pm

A dude open-carrying is a known quantity.

Yes, he is. How many dudes that are open carrying have been killed first in a robbery?
How many CC have been killed first in a robbery?

When you are talking statistical anomalies there is no proof either way. But even dumb criminals have a survival instinct. Seeing someone carrying is going to discourage the BG from attacking an unarmed business.

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Jon July 23, 2012 at 07:32 am

Even if Texas had open carry, mostly I would conceal.

BUT. If Texas was open carry, there are times I would open carry… Today I can’t.

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markofafreeman July 23, 2012 at 03:29 pm

We’ve got this:
Can’t say I agree with walking around like you’re ready to kill, sending off a “don’t fuck with me” vibe.

followed by some other drivel in that post. Here we go again, the insults come from people purportedly on our side direct at those who carry openly. The rest of this post sounds like the Brady Campaign could have written it. Please…stop…helping.

And this:
Oddly enough the ONLY people I know who open carry are sheriff’s deputies, on and off duty.

To which I say, “So?” That’s you. One isolated example. I’ve gone to open carry dinners where I’ve met people from all walks of life who carry not just at those dinners, but everywhere they can. Like me.

Then this classic:
I’d have less of a problem with open carry, if open carry required a permit and if people open carrying were required to present that permit upon request by an LEO.

Wow. Just wow. I really don’t care if you have a problem with it. You must be an LEO. Talk about a step backwards. To anyone who is supposedly on our side who thinks we should get government permission to exercise a human right, the answer is “No. Your move.”

And this:
By making a big fuss about it, they put themselves on the radar of the anti gunners. They were the nail that stuck up. If they kept a low profile open carry might still be carry in California.

So I would ask, what, pray tell, good is having a “right” that you never exercise? Given that Kalifornistan is may-issue that in practice is shall-not-issue, it was the only means they had to carry. The legislature is hopeless there, so forcing it into the courts — which at the appellate level has been much more favorable to us in recent years — was the only way to get movement.

And this:
I agree that concealed is the only way to go, except if you want people to know for a purpose. As for movie theater crazies, the first people they’ll aim for are the ones they noticed were carrying.
I’m surprised that there was nobody armed in that place but the crazy guy. I bet that’ll change…or maybe the TSA will start screening moviegoers too?

Only way to go? Says who? Now that’s a strategy for desensitization, right there! And as far as targeting those who are armed, prove it. I don’t think anyone’s done any real studies, but the only anecdotal stories I’ve heard have been in favor of the argument that it’s a deterence, not a bullet magnet.

And:
But yeah, I agree. Concealed carry is the way to go, even when it comes to deterrent. A dude open-carrying is a known quantity. He can be planned for and dealt with. If you want to be the first one shot, by all means, open carry. Noone draws faster than the element of surprise, no matter how vigilant a spectre you are, and the gunman will simply maneuver in behind you before drawing his weapon and opening fire.

Nice made up scenario. I’ll bet you can cite several real world examples of just how true this is. No? Thought so. Like I always say. Prove it. Show your work. Every time I wear my concealment vest (which is less so these days as I carry openly wherever I can), and some idiot gunny calls it a shoot-me-first vest, I think, and sometimes say out loud, “prove it, moron.” None can.

I’m still astounded at how many there are that think they are on our side, but sound so much like the Bradys. You’re NOT helping.

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Nate July 23, 2012 at 03:56 pm

You NEED to watch the video, you’re exactly the type they’re talking about.

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markofafreeman July 23, 2012 at 04:23 pm

I NEED to do nothing of the sort. I entirely expected that I was “the sort” he is talking about. And it makes me even less inclined to watch it. I’ve seen enough of him to know he’s on the wrong side on this. He should stick to shooting and teach shooting classes. At least until such time as he gets a photographer killed.

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Jim P. July 23, 2012 at 05:44 pm

At the end of the video he did say he was giving away 10 free training classes to those who hate him and wanted to argue with him.

Of course, since I consider him dangerous, I’m not going to take him up on his offer.

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markofafreeman July 23, 2012 at 06:21 pm

+1

When Yeager posts a video pledging his commitment to never put another photographer in danger the way he has again, I’d maybe consider him not dangerous anymore. It’s bad enough that he did it. But putting out a lengthy video defending it is what clinched it for me.

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markofafreeman July 23, 2012 at 06:19 pm

Dammit.

Dammit.

Dammit.

I let my curiosity get the better of me and I watched the video, even though I said I didn’t need to.

Now I *really* know I didn’t need to.

These guys really made asses of themselves throughout that 14+ minutes. Now understand, I’m not CALLING them asses, just that they MADE asses of themselves. ;-) ;-)

It’s *so* tempting to fisk this entire video. I could counter almost every point, and not even be *half* as tacticool. And to the points I might not be able to *counter*, I can certainly say, “So? What’s it to you?”

I’m also all butthurt (to use another anti-OC ranter’s term) at the implication that I’m exactly the type they were talking about. Bite me. Their generalizations are epic.

There, is that enough snark?

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Ninjavitis July 23, 2012 at 07:20 pm

I prefer to conceal because I like to blend in. I just don’t want to draw attention. I have open carried on occasion, especially here in Colorado Springs where my Washington CC licence is no good, but for the most part I’m just more comfortable with no one knowing who I am or what I’m capable of. Granted, I don’t go out very much either.

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Jon July 23, 2012 at 10:50 pm

They’re entitled to their opinions. I didn’t see any compelling arguments against open carry being presented and James Yeager is completely irrelevant to me and my daily life, so it’s back to something useful.

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DANGER CLOSE July 24, 2012 at 04:38 am

Jeff WHO from WHAT?

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GT January 12, 2013 at 07:45 am

well, he ain’t carrying nothing from yesterday… handing out internet death threats dont go down well

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