Israeli Combat Training – Asymmetric Derp Warfare

You haven’t really trained until you’ve trained under operator Ben Goldstein:

Elite operator combat training course instructed by a Tier Zero Israeli operator commando asset who has operated on multiple organic full spectrum dynamic systematical operational operations. With this training develop an aggressive operator warrior mindset that breeds a kinetic nonlinear response to exploit and dominate the enemy in an unconventional and asymmetric fashion.

Wow right out of the gate my mind was blown with this vid:

0:11 – Adjusting (wtf?) loaded handguns in student’s hands.  The closest Glock is loaded says the chamber indicator anyway so I’m assuming they are all loaded getting ready for a drill.

0:15 – In case of home invasion distract intruder by putting non shooting hand up by ear holding up all 5 fingers while awkwardly rotating your body to shoot from the stomach

0:25 – “Using Proven Israeli Methods” followed by the most epic trigger slapping I’ve witnessed in a while.  It even went on past slide-lock. Bravo sir bravo…

0:54 – Swinging a yellow pole angrily at the students.  That stress training to create a positive warrior mindset.

1:14 – “You will train to become a warrior. A person that moves towards the sound of gunfire, not away from it”.  Yea something tells me no carry class in the country, nor any reputable firearm self defense course is going to tell you to fight someone else’s battle.

1:27 – Approximately 10 seconds to get an AK ready to fire.  You’re dead old man… pick a new rifle or leave self defense to the young whippersnappers.

1:41 – I’m loving the exaggerated perimeter scan.  Very Hollywood.  Upside down AR-15 mag in some kydex too is operator.  That fool’s kydex got mo’ retention than a motherfucker.

1:47 – Flap your arms with your handgun and your mag before every reload.

1:59 – Did he seriously train this girl to shoot like that?  Eyes closed, elbows bent, shitty grip

2:07 – “You won’t have a choice, because he just forced combat on you” – SURPRISE COMBAT!

2:22 – “Train hard and prepare for the worst” I’m thinking with these guys should be more like “Train the worst and prepare to fail hard.”

2:24 – I burst out laughing at this – “THIIIIIIIS is trigger control” *agressive mag toss*  He might as well just finished that sentence with “you stupid sons of bitches” because it was about as belittling.

2:28 – And were back to walking infront of students with (probably loaded) guns

2:43 – LOL verbally bitch slapped this guy into a kneel / reload / fire then goes into some dialogue like a hypnotist.

3:08 – Once again, some more loaded guns to walk infront of and adjust

3:14 – “We always attack, we never give up, we never die”

3:38 – Sweet grip brah.  Make sure you get that thumb behind the trigger so you can make it reset quicker to satisfy your operator needs.

3:52 – “SCAHHHHHHHN SCAHHHHHHN” *everyone puts non trigger hand up by head and looks around like idiots*

4:23 – Become your greatest fear with Israeli Combat Training.  Well my greatest fear is being a Tier 0 Derperator so I think I found the right place.

5:21 – Oh shit the tactical yellow pole is back.

5:54 – Charging on the come-up.  Definitely adding that move to my bag of operational tricks.

6:10 – I’ve seen butter that wasn’t as smooth as that transition.

7:00 – Probably the most awkward and useless looking drill I’ve ever seen. 

7:23 – Old white dude attempts the same drill with added yelling from the instructor.  “Scan… breathe… Bring it in… bring it in… fucking awesome. I SAW your first shot I SAW them right here.”

Operator-Ben-Goldstein-Israeli-Combat-TrainingIs this real life?  I appears so.  They even have a website.  If you live in the Southern part of Florida, Memphis TN, or in Little Rock AR, it looks like you can get training from these guys pretty easily.  If you don’t, no need to fret, according to their class schedule page they will travel anywhere in the country for training sessions.

Thoughts?

Hat tip: Ryan

83 COMMENTS

JUMP DOWN ↓ TO ADD ANOTHER

Lew May 20, 2013 at 02:08 am

Wow. Just….wow. Wow.

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Matt in FL May 20, 2013 at 07:59 am

This was exactly the comment I was going to leave.

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Chris May 20, 2013 at 03:03 am

With a Youtube account like ReacharoundActual, what could go wrong?

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Jeep May 20, 2013 at 03:13 am

OMFG !
Your finger never leaves the trigger, just like your foot never leaves the gas pedal, and your mind never leaves the derp.

7:00, yeah, right, never aim, just run and shoot, aiming is for pussies! And don’t forget to include in your core muscle memory that crappy move with the gun up your chest.

And my personal favorite:
4:20, “If you can become your greatest fear”…
HA HA HA ! Who are you? Batman?

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Enfieldem2 May 20, 2013 at 09:14 pm

So I guess I would become a spider/clown/mailman? Or the Ebola virus, there is certainly a cultish feel to all this.

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Jeep May 21, 2013 at 05:19 am

HIS greatest fear IS a clown, and he just became one !
Congrats Ben !! :-)

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HouHef45 May 20, 2013 at 03:59 am

“Everyone, kneel before me!!, I mean ugh, kneel before every reload!!! (Damn, I always mess that up. At least they still respect me because of my half grown-in goatee” -Derporator

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Dave May 20, 2013 at 04:28 am

Apparently eye protection is optional…

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Shroomy May 20, 2013 at 04:36 am

Im really liking the slight lisp on this fruit… is that perhaps some evidence as to why his name is ReachAroundActual?

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AaronW May 20, 2013 at 04:44 am

~2:29 – also looks like he was going to rack the slide after the mag insertion, but it closed for him and it took half a second for him to realize it.

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Edition30 May 20, 2013 at 06:01 am

3:27 draw your secondary while in the “I’m taking a dump” stance and sweap your femoral artery :-)

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Mitch May 20, 2013 at 06:06 am

As he cleaned toilets in isreal, he took notes on magpuls videos, dreaming of coming to the land of opportunity.

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I'm not an anti-Semite, but what if someone was and went to his class? May 20, 2013 at 06:31 am

“BECOME YOUR GREATEST FEAR!”

*greatest fear is a jew with a gun*

*goldstein*
*Israeli combat training*

*I am become WarJew*

“NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO”

*tactically inserts 115gr of metal into brain at high velocity using operational hand held metal delivery device*

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032125 May 20, 2013 at 01:56 pm

I’m not an anti-Semite, but…

This has got to be the #1 introduction to racist screeds.

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theblackknight May 20, 2013 at 06:48 am

This has to be fake

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denver chris May 20, 2013 at 08:45 am

When will these “instructors” learn that posting their stuff online is a bad idea?

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Stone06 May 20, 2013 at 09:04 am

My initial thought was that this was some sort of Rick Taylor spoof. Then I googled the thing. Ben Goldstein has a Linked (or whatever it’s called) account. Here was one of his credentials.

Israel Defense Force, Infantry
Combat, Pursuing nasty people in hostile environments
1996 – 2009
My higher education was with “boots on the ground” real world life experience serving with great soldiers and border police officers in a very tough neighborhood…the Middle East.
Activities and Societies: Activities?? Tracking down terror suspects. Patrols. Checkpoints. House raids. Riot control. Suicide bomber interdiction.

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MakoGroup May 20, 2013 at 10:19 am

I would love to see this guys actual resumé. Yea, mag dumps while running toward a target and not aiming is what us warriors do. I find it amazing no one has slipped their grip on the gun and shot a round through their hand. This dude is out of control.

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Ben May 24, 2013 at 09:32 am

My resume is available to anyone online. You simply did no research beyond the above hacked video and foolish verbiage.

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Regulus May 20, 2013 at 10:33 am

It’s really scary all these guys that do this “training” just keep popping up. there really should be some kinda of test or licensing for it

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Mitch May 24, 2013 at 08:31 am

Usually its regulated by common sense, only attended by those he seduces with words like “warrior mentality” and “aggressive maneuvering”

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Ben May 24, 2013 at 09:35 am

Correct. Both more important than actual firearms training. But i do not work via seduction. Only word of mouth and referrals.

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Kenny Blankenship May 20, 2013 at 11:32 am

3:00 “Look around you. Look around you. Just LOOK around you.”

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jpcmt May 20, 2013 at 01:10 pm

Lol! So since our goal in that class is to become my worst fear, then I’d like to know how I can become two or three home invaders if I only have two hands?? I must not have the warrior mindset I need. Dammit!!

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Jesse May 20, 2013 at 02:38 pm

So when he says that his purpose is to turn me into my greatest fear, is he saying that I’ll become a 6 foot tall flying spider?

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Lew May 20, 2013 at 04:57 pm

I’m sure this guy did his time in an infantry unit, though he looks and behaves like a REMF who always wanted to be a tough guy in the fighting echelons. Maybe he even spent some time in some sort of counter-terror unit at the lower levels (think “local SWAT” [James Yeager!] rather than “Delta Force”). But being a lowly fucking grunt does not qualify you to train people. If it does, look out for “Lews School of Tacticool Goodness and Ass-Kicking” opening soon.

Seriously, everyone and their mothers are starting up a “tactical school” in the style of those that actually know what they’re doing. This guy simply seems like one of those guys who talks about his military double-tapping of Tangos when picking up girls at the bar who has to admit that he was a fucking driver or clerk when confronted by other military folks. Bloody people.

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Dallas May 22, 2013 at 12:34 pm

“Lews School of Tacticool Goodness and Ass-Kicking”

Shut up and take my money Lew!

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Luke L May 20, 2013 at 06:43 pm

Holy shit! That video description alone had me rolling! How many tacticool buzzwords can you fit in there? I think half of my brain turned to polymer just from reading it.

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Matt in FL May 20, 2013 at 07:04 pm

I thought it had to be a joke just based on “systematical operational operations.” It sounded too much like when people snarkily talk about “operating operationally.” I’m still not completely convinced that this isn’t an elaborate joke, because my mind refuses to 100% accept that it could be real.

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Squirreltactical May 20, 2013 at 08:15 pm

@ 1:58,

Someone, please please Please make that into a .gif!!!

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ENDO-Mike May 20, 2013 at 10:13 pm

hahah epic

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Travis Brown May 20, 2013 at 10:32 pm

Why beat around the bush. This guy is a fucking idiot.

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Ben May 23, 2013 at 08:19 am

nah, you can continue to beat around the bush. But your NRA instructors course sure beats Israeli training and counter terror operations, any day! Again, things people do not see on a daily basis on Paladin press vid’s or in a “Tactical” magazine, or on a TV show, must not work, must be garbage and certainly is worth trashing…?

Next time I am in TX running sessions, you are invited to watch and then form an opinion.

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Mitch May 24, 2013 at 08:36 am

Yes, certified instructors beat rehashing by a moron. Every time. Anyone who knows anything about firearms will tell you that running around and dropping to the ground with your finger on the trigger of a loaded gun will result in ND.

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Ben May 24, 2013 at 09:34 am

amazing then how in zero of the sessions I have taught over a 10+ year period in two countries and a dozen states, there has never been a ND! Wow. Maybe that has something to do with us working differently than you suspect. Just maybe…

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me May 21, 2013 at 12:00 am

So Landmark Education is giving tactical classes now?

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SittingDown May 21, 2013 at 12:46 am

(R)etarded. LOL

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Travis Haley May 21, 2013 at 08:24 am

What the fuck did I just watch?

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Kyle May 21, 2013 at 01:39 pm

I might not have Taktikal Warfighter Operator 2: Electric Boogaloo experience, but even I can load an AK faster than the visibly shaking old man at 1:27 “Gat danggit, how do I load this here commie rifle. Where’s my M14 at?!”

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DS May 22, 2013 at 08:44 am

I know that the Uzi is the signature Israeli gun, but is there a legitimate reason to teach americans how to use them? They aren’t exactly easy to come by. . . .

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Ben May 22, 2013 at 09:18 am

I must admit, the individual who took my video off of my website, and then inserted his own information into it (headlines, description, some utter nonsense about “Tier Zero Operator” or whatever it was, is a talented hack. Why someone would want to do such a thing is something I am still trying to figure out. Anyone here who isn’t a half wit can simply compare the original with what is posted above. That copyright infringement and hack of a video is not my own.
Next…
At no time am I in front of a shooter while a pistol is loaded. That means ever. In 10 years of training groups of civilians and LE both in the USA and Israel, I have never had a safety infraction or a ND.

I will never speak of my own merits or lack thereof. Rather, I let those who I train speak for me. Ego is not something I bring to the training session. I leave each session with no voice, bruised and bloodied. I give it my soul and I expect the same in return from those who train with me. The verbal and physical stress I induce is just that. Never do I put a shooter down. Ever. Respect is a two way street.

Of course, this IS the internet and everyone has their opinions and remarks to make based on snippets of video, and none of the folks doing so have ever participated amongst the hundreds of shooters I have trained. Now, if you would like to comment AFTER running through a course with me, then by all means, have at it. But, to talk out of your mouth as if you are talking out of your ass is just that…talk.

Put up or shut up. Next time I am stateside, I invite any instructor or any person for that matter, to take a session and then I welcome your thoughts and critiques afterwards. Don’t simply spew the stuff you learned during your NRA instructors course, or maybe learned during your annual 2 day training session at _______ tactical movie stars training facility. Grab your pistol and a few mags, please don’t show up dressed like a SWAT operator on crack, bring an open mature mindset to learn techniques created by and used by the Israeli Counter Terror Training schools and operators (tweaked for use in the American market,) and then argue with me, face to face, like a man, as to WHY the methods I teach are “wrong”, or “stupid”, or whatever term you have used to describe them. I truly welcome the opportunity. I always ask those I teach to argue with me at every turn. We build better warriors by learning from each other.

Aggression, developing keen situational awareness, efficiency of movement, and establishing a warrior mindset…these are the primary goals in the training. If you are an olympic shooter, thats great. if you are fairly new to handguns, that’s also great. You own a custom tricked out multi barrel Glock 3000 handed down to your grandfather, father and then to you by the late Col Cooper? Awesome! Now lets use it and abuse it to see when and why it fails.

All training is based on techniques used daily by the Israeli counter terror instructors and operators. These are people who I work with daily, who I have been working closely with for over 12 years, and are the top in their fields in Israel. I am not, nor will I ever claim to be, an uber tacticool Ninja. But I am an aggressive warrior who faces fear and danger and moves forward into it. Those are not hollow words.

I never suggest that one method is superior to another. But I always suggest people have an open mind to soak in other techniques and methodologies.
If this sounds negative to you, there is no hope for you. Continue with your flaming and your keyboard commando rants. It’s probably all you will ever be good for anyways, so enjoy your 15 minutes.

The Israeli method is extremely aggressive, with nearly continuous forward/attack based movement. It’s fast and violent and unforgiving. It is not what you are used to. It is not Politically Correct. Our shopping mall guards are trained better in counter terror and suicide bomber interdiction than most shooters will ever be Stateside. That is simply a fact of life of where we live and where you live.

We do things that you have never seen before and your initial reaction is to discount anything that you haven’t seen done by one of the instructors you are already familiar with. Shit, it’s come to a point where if you don’t have a goatee and are on national TV or in SWAT mag, you aren’t worth the time of day. If this is the approach you take, I feel sorry for your immaturity and ignorance.

The folks who train with me range from fairly new to the world of firearms, to LE, to Combat Focus trained instructors, to Federal LE Instructors, to students of Vickers, Rogers and other instructors. They are typically not one-off students. They come back each and every year for more. they are also range owners/operators, Former US Army Rangers, former Marines and just about everything in between.

Again, to stress the obvious, the things you see on a video clip may be from someone who just picked up a pistol or rifle for the first time. The methods you see (one handed scanning, shooting on the run, using verbal and physical methods to create stress and confusion, verifying the condition of your firearm before advancing, learning how to properly insert a magazine while maintaining situational awareness, chambering a rifle/carbine while bringing it into fire position…etc…) are all methods that if you actually spent the energy to train on them, you may actually learn something new and effective. In case you haven’t heard, Israeli’s have been fighting terror long before 2001.

For those that disagree, you are entitled to disagree, unless that right has been stripped from you as well under this administration.

I wish you all peace and comfort.
Ben Goldstein

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Matt in FL May 22, 2013 at 09:33 am

A ha! So I was right! “Systematical operational operations” wasn’t real. Too bad, sorta. I know there are people out there like this, and it was nice to have a “true” example to point to. Oh well, guess it’s back to making fun of James Yeager’s shoulder rolls.

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ENDO-Mike May 22, 2013 at 09:44 am

So are their snap caps in the Glock at 11 seconds then? That loaded chamber indicator is calling bullshit on you.

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thebronze May 22, 2013 at 10:39 pm

So the video on your own website was “doctored” too?

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Mitch May 24, 2013 at 08:38 am

You cant “hack” a video to make you do obviously dangerous things and say ignorant sh**. Backpedal all you want, you can’t undo the DERP

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Ben May 24, 2013 at 09:37 am

Why are they obviously dangerous? Where is the “obvious” danger you are talking about? What ignorant sh*t are you referring to? At least back your words up with facts.

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Ben May 22, 2013 at 10:11 am

well Mike, the first clue is that nobody is wearing ear protection. Not typical in a live fire scenario. Snap caps are commonly used during training although this session was nearly 5 years ago and I do not recall this specific gentlemen’s use (or not) of snap caps. But, to rest the point, never would there be an instance of an instructor or a shooter walking in front of a loaded firearm. Note the word “loaded”. In my sessions, we first check our own weapons, then we double buddy check (check the shooter to the left and right of you), and then I check each weapon on the line, any and all magazines, any and all backup weapons and backup mags, and then, and ONLY then, is the line considered dry. Do I break Rule number 2 of the firearm safety rules? Yes, sometimes I do. And I have been working on trying to blend absolute focus on each individual with NOT breaking Rule number 2, and it is a work in progress. Being in front of a student helps me instruct and them learn, and there are advantages and disadvantages to this method. Safety sticks are an option, but I feel that they allow for the operator to treat his weapon with complete disregard. Again, it is a work in progress.

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BBJones May 22, 2013 at 12:09 pm

I question you and your students readiness to break rule #2. As soon as you walked in front of my muzzle, I would take a walk to my car and never look back.

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James May 24, 2013 at 06:28 am

^Exactly this.

What a dumbass, dicking around in front of a muzzle.

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Ben May 24, 2013 at 07:34 am

No dicking around. I rarely, if ever, dick around. Dicking around is not an expertise of mind. Now, utilizing training methods that people may find strange to them, while under a total net of safety and awareness? Thats what I do. So If I told you that each and every weapon I stand in front has a safety stick inside the barrel, is that also wrong? When is a firearm no longer lethal? When does it go from being a killing tool to a paperweight? Have you ever been to a gunshow where vendors chain their guns to the table so people can “try them on”? Wouldn’t that be considered a breach of firearm safety protocol? What about a toy gun? Airsoft? If you point that at someone, are you not teaching them to Aim a gun at something they are not willing to destroy? Or will you argue that it is not a gun since it cannot truly kill/harm? But it can. It can harm. What about simunitions? You take your Glock, change a component and BAM! You have a Glock that fires simunitions. Don’t police departments train “force on force” with this exact set-up every day? So here they are, with their service weapons, and they are pointing them at fellow officers during training. Why is THAT ok but it is not ok to train under a controlled safety environment with a class?

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Mitch May 24, 2013 at 08:42 am

Because there is a loaded gun pointed at your gut in the hands of a student? And you’ve preached that they should have their finger on the trigger at all times? Did I miss anything, or does that bout sum it up?

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Ben May 24, 2013 at 09:31 am

You missed just about everything I wrote prior. So you summed nothing up.
You only summed up your own agenda.
To recap:
1)Never is an instructor or student ever in front of the line of fire during a live fire drill or during a time when all firearms have been checked and rechecked three times.
2) The “Finger is always on the trigger” remark was a remark made to drill in the idea that DURING the time you are actively firing your pistol, your finger does NOT leave the trigger (thereby creating poor trigger control/slap). Of course, you took a snap video and created this whole idea that never ever does someone take their finger off the trigger at any time. That thought is not only ignorant, it’s embarrassing that you would assume such an idea rather than assume that it was in the context of a live fire drill where the fundamentals of trigger manipulation were being discussed and shown. After each round of fire, we always index our finger prior to moving on. Always. Each and every time.

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Mitch May 24, 2013 at 12:22 pm

Ya know what? I’m going to give this one to you. It did seem like a shitty compilation video, and if it wasn’t your work, well then they made you look really bad, and you have every right to be upset. You seem like a hard working , honest and intelligent fella, and you are out teaching people to defend themselves, and you are passionate about your work. You touched on everything that seemed to be at fault with believable refutations, and held your ground and didn’t jump to ignorant retorts like so many have after being flamed on this site and others like it. You have my props sir. I retract all my insults, and instead offer my respect.

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Ben May 26, 2013 at 10:21 pm

As Ali G says…”Respect”!

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Ben May 22, 2013 at 11:59 am

Thaqnk you

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Squirreltactical May 22, 2013 at 07:58 pm

Go to the website and find the first video up from the bottom of the page, of the Level 3 class. Crazy stuff.

Sorry, bro, but I just can’t see the tactical advantage you gain by leaving available cover to hop on top of a vehicle’s hood like Spider Man, or running towards a target and firing without using your sights. I would seriously be interested in seeing everyone’s groups after using that technique.

And I don’t want to be critical about something that I can’t prove, but it doesn’t look like those targets are getting reset or re-pasted between shooters, which makes me question if anyone is even being evaluated on their effects on target. In which case, I have to ask what the fudging point is, besides looking cool.

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thebronze May 22, 2013 at 10:45 pm

Here’s more great ICT hits!!! How long before this one is removed too…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=qcUyJ70GwlY

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Regulus May 24, 2013 at 07:49 am

hahahahhahaha! wow

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czbeardly May 27, 2013 at 01:52 pm

scaaaaaaaaaaan!

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Ben May 23, 2013 at 12:14 am

Squirrel
Finally a worthwhile question Thank you.
The video in question was shot several days after two vicious terror attacks in Jerusalem where the weapon used was a front loader (heavy machinery). The first attack was stopped short by an off duty combat soldier who jumped off his bicycle, grabbed a Glock from a security guard, climbed on the front loader and executes the terrorist point blank through the window.
This was just a way to get a quarter of the feeling of what it may be like to have to get on top of a vehicle in order to eliminate a threat. Of course, it’s not the same scenario but the entire point was to show that attacks on the innocent are not always orthodox and commom and sometimes working outside of the box will allow you to deal with a threat.

Again, this may not be something that is understandable by the American crowd in General as I do not recall the last terror attacking America where a front loader was used as a deadly weapon.

Also, at the end of each session I try and allow everyone time to blow off steam by having fun. Running and gunning. Trying out prototype weapons created by a local gun/suppressor manufacturer.

Your point about resetting targets after each shooter…
During the “Core” training we mark targets with a sharpie after each round of fire.
During advanced training there are segments where, based on an experience I had while in the IDF in 1998 and based on logical thought afterwards, I like to show people that tight groups on a ringed target is less important than charging your targets with extreme violence to close ground fast and hard. Again, in Israel we are nearly always on the attack and not the defense during training. We don’t look for cover and then respond to a terrorist. We attack the terrorist FIRST and then if available utilize cover to proceed.

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PJ May 24, 2013 at 07:57 am

Well there was this:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvin_Heemeyer

Out of curioriosty why is that in Israel you constantly advance? I’ve seen this several times before from Israeli training but American training is usually shoot from cover as long as they’re shooting at you, advance when they stop. Is the constant advancing to make sure they don’t get away?

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Ben May 24, 2013 at 08:14 am

Wikipedia for the win!

Good question PJ. The reason why we are always taught to advance/attack is due to one main reason:
The Land of Israel is tiny. You can fit 31 Israel’s into Texas! People rarely realize the small size of Israel versus its constant appearance in the news and the global political scene. Also due to the amount of amazing creativity that comes from Israel (think Tech, Biotech, Military tech, nobel prize winners, etc…)

Due to the very small nature of the Land of Israel, with the Sea to our West, and surrounded on each side by extremely hostile “neighbors” (Syria/Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt, Iran, Iraq, Saudi, Sudan, Libya…), if we give the enemy time to think, they will already be at our doorstep and into our actual homes. We are ALWAYS taught and trained to immediately bring a violent and brutal response to any harmful attack (think terror attacks, war..)

That is on a large scale. But even on the small scale (think “a bad person is in your home going after your wife and children, and you are about to enter the home to attack that person.) Under that scenario, the only way we are taught is to move fast and hard, only checking major entryways (front/rear door upon initial entry, hallways) while truly charging into the fight. Thats not to say there are no methods for moving carefully through a structure and that those methods do not have a place, they do. But on the whole, we strongly believe that speed and violence of action is crucial to not ending up in another set of ovens like we found ourselves in Europe in WW2.

Small real estate means no time to waste. You MUST attack. you MUST advance. Find cover only after you have attacked.

Again, I stress, this is all counter to what is commonly taught in the American training doctrines found at most instructional schools in the USA. But if you can think of it in terms of an active shooter(s) in your kids school, then you can imagine how we are trained from Day 1. The person on this forum who would “wait for the police” to arrive before heading in to eliminate the threat has learned nothing from past occurrences with active shooters. Every person I train has the possibility in their lifetime to become involved in a fight for your life situation.

Or, even more important, forget about your life and think about the lives of your family.
There is no “find cover, hunker down and wait”. There is only “hunt them down, use whatever tactics you can or have learned while on the hunt, and eliminate the threat(s) as quickly as possible.”

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Jon May 24, 2013 at 11:49 am

There’s a big difference between attacking through an ambush and training people to charge blindly into areas in which they have no information. In the video showing “vehicle tactics,” people are being taught to charge past a barrier without doing ANYTHING to determine what’s behind it. Do they know how many threats are behind that target? Can they take a shot without totally exposing themselves? Ever heard of slicing the pie? That’s some basic stuff, dude. Additionally, charging and firing while the gun is at the compressed ready position is a recipe for inaccurate shooting and wounded bystanders. If the threat is also moving and you’re trying to get hits based on a relatively poor and unstable body index, you’ll always be shooting where the target WAS, not where it’s headed. God forbid you trip while you’re firing. This is just a countdown to a tragic accident. And finally (for now) taking a knee to reload sets students up for disaster, as well. If I run out of ammo, the last thing I should do is become stationary where the threat knows I am.

I paused your videos and observed the targets. The number of off-silhouette hits is entirely unacceptable. I contribute that to poor grip fundamentals and an emphasis on speed before accuracy.

I’ve shown your videos to avid shooters, professional instructors, AND people who’ve never handled a gun in their lives. The reaction has been unanimous. The techniques are obviously some combination of dated, dangerous, and ineffective information, and not-applicable to civilian self defense. Employing these techniques in real life will land your civilian students in the hospital, in the morgue, in court, and in jail.

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Jon May 24, 2013 at 12:04 pm

Just fundamentally, there’s no reason your students should leave a Level I class while still missing the silhouette target, let alone demonstrating that poor accuracy at an “advanced” class involving vehicles. It’s criminally negligent, plain and simple.

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Ben May 26, 2013 at 10:41 pm

So you are judging a training session based on the number of holes on and off target? With zero background information as to what those targets were used for during the previous 8 hours of training? That’s like stating you can solve a murder mystery by staring at a picture rather than collecting evidence at the scene. There is so much training and technique prior to what you see in that clip, where targets are used as barriers/cover/concealment. Where there are multiple layers of targets, all of which are considered ok to engage with lethal force.

I think part of what is missing here is that people don’t actually understand the context of the training, and as we all know, most people are scared of what they don’t immediately understand. This fear leads to accusations, which leads to blind insults, which leads to what is tantamanount to a flame session, all based on lack of understanding.
My company name was not chosen lightly. I do not teach self defense. I always state so at the beginning of each session. I teach combat techniques developed over years by the Israeli Counter Terror teams and instructional school. I teach offensive (as in always on the attack) combat techniques to people who desire the knowledge and wish to seriously enhance their warrior mindset, awareness and aggression. You will rarely if ever have us shooting el presidente drills. No figure 8 drills. No drills you will see at other training sessions. We are always thinking and operating outside of the box, always thinking and planning steps ahead, and working towards one primary goal: to stop the threats as quickly as possible to minimize civilian casualties. Our lives are not important (yup. I just said that, and I believe in it). We focus on saving our family, saving those we are sworn to protect (LE), and doing it all with the utmost speed and aggression. By freeing yourself from your fears as much as possible, and filling that pit of fear with confidence and technique, you can operate and act with the aggression and commitment needed in a terror attack, or a home invasion, or a riot, or an ambush. Combat training. Not self defense.

If someone wants to spend 8 hours fine tuning their shooting skills, this is not the session for you and there are better instructors out there for the fine tuning skills. There are hundreds of instructors out there who spend the majority of session training time working in the fundamentals of shooting. That is great, that is vital, and everyone should focus hard on developing those skills daily.

I always recommend people continue on with other instructors that specialize in marksmanship. That is not, nor will it ever be, the goal of my sessions. Of course we review precision shooting techniques. Of course we review grip, sight alignment, trigger pull, follow up, magazine changes, malfunction clearing etc…but that is two hours out of 8.

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Jon May 26, 2013 at 11:39 pm

“I do not teach self defense.”

Then the curriculum is likely not legally applicable to civilians outside of some extremely specific, rare, and esoteric circumstances. That is to say, if a student uses these tactics to defend themselves, then their actions may fall outside of what a prosecutor and jury will consider reasonable self defense, even in the narrow circumstances you describe. And, given the seemingly wild and blind firing that’s going on, they’ll also be on the hook for all the bodily harm and property damage they inflict on bystanders. Like I said, it’s irresponsible, even if you restrict it to the narrow conditions you describe.
The level of blind aggressive attack you tout as being core to this training not only sets up the practitioners to get totally smoked early in this hypothetical encounter, by charging into unknown areas without doing any kind of effective clearing, but the total lack of emphasis on shot accountability WILL result in harmed bystanders.
Aggressive mindset is obviously necessary for surviving a violent encounter. However, if that’s not paired with a certain amount of care and critical problem solving, a civilian who has potential to do good and stop a threat will just wind up getting blow away before they can get the job done.

I challenge you to show a student getting combat effective hits on a moving target, charging forward and firing from the compressed ready position. If they get 1 out of 10 hits ON THE PAPER, I’ll be utterly stunned.

Let’s put our money where our mouth is and pressure test this system. I would happily participate in some force-on-force training to see if you system can vanquish what you’d consider to be the “inside the box” status quo. We can test each technique and strategy individually and then work up to larger scenarios.

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Ben May 26, 2013 at 11:44 pm

Sounds like fun to me. You are invited to the next session. No payment needed. Where in the States do you live?

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Jon May 26, 2013 at 11:58 pm

We’re up in PA. I’ll be there with a mix of professional instructors and highly competent civilians and we can see what works and what doesn’t. We can do one-on-one technique testing and then some force on force.

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Ben May 26, 2013 at 11:55 pm

Also, just to clarify. Never have I mentioned that standard training is less valuable. It is all valuable. From a legal context I teach nothing that violates the law. The compressed ready position you refer to is a technique that is called “shooting on the run” and its the most stable platform for shooting while charging a target with a pistol.
This is not used in an area with civilians. The hit ratio is small but the technique is startlingly effective and has maximum shock value, providing your own cover while charging a threat. I call it the Officer Down scenario and I would be happy t explain in in detail and the pros and cons. But now, I am off to the beach with my kids!

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Jon May 27, 2013 at 12:13 am

“Highly stable” and “low hit ratio” don’t go hand in hand. If it was highly stable, the hit ratio would necessarily be higher. The low hit ratio is naturally the result of low stability.

“This is not used in an area with civilians.”
This area does not exist. Even the modern battlefield has civilians, especially in urban environments.
Any civilian or law enforcement officer is accountable for the ultimate destination of each round they fire. Period. Even in an effort to suppress a target during a maneuver, you can’t just fling lead into the background at random. Either you’re teaching a technique that has unacceptable liability attached, or you’re teaching a technique that has virtually zero practical application with a low probability of effectiveness.

I’m pretty sure that a half-dozen rapid, controlled, center mass hits has more shock value than a bunch of noisy misses and a target who’s stopped dead to reload their gun half-way through their ineffective assault.

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Ben May 27, 2013 at 11:55 pm

High stability compared to any other form of shooting with a pistol while charging a target. Now, to focus, once again, on a twenty min segment of the training instead of the entire session, also does not make sense. There are times when rapidly closing on a target is called for and in a scenario where civilians will not be effected, this charging whole firing is a tactic that is effective. The parameters involved here are extremely narrow though and its use is very rare. But I integrate it into the training to show that it is another tool and an effective one at that.
I doubt you, or the large majority of shooters, will effectively put half a dozen “center mass” hits on a target from 100 feet. Therefore, to rapidly close distance while utilizing your own cover fire AND hitting the target with at least a 30 percent hit ratio, in a circumstance where civilians or collateral damage to human life is not an issue, this is a tool to file away, not a mainstream technique to be employed normally. I can’t explain it any clearer.

There are times to clear a structure room by room, door by door, step by step. There are also times where the LUXURY of time is not present. Therefore you must act quickly and clear an area without taking time to focus on each crevice and closet. School shooting where you hear the gunfire in a certain direction…..active shooter at a mall where you see the crowd fleeing and you are headed in the direction of the gunshots…someone already in your home and your wife, with the kids, called you from the bedroom scared to death behind a locked door.
It’s only fairly recently in the USA where even Law Enforcement has been instructed that the first officer on scene of an active shooter is now the rapid response team and to enter and eliminate the threat as rapidly as possible. In Israel this has been the mantra for decades.

To be overly analytical in the face of danger will also get innocents killed. Sometimes you must simply react hard and fast while still utilizing your brain and technical abilities, but a hard and fast response is vital. Also, the legalities of a shooting are important. We train how to react post shooting. How to describe the event to a 911 operator. How to describe your self, your clothing, location, the fact that you tried to perform first aid I the shooter, and to allow the phone to continue to record the events. All of this under a high degree of physical and mental stress.
But….if you focus so heavily on the legal aspects of the encounter instead of focusing on eliminating the threat as quickly and effectively as possible, your analytical thinking may prevent you from reacting appropriately.

It is all a balance. In Israel there is a saying: “If u are sitting in a restaurant and you hear a terror attack taking place outside, if you, as an operator or security personnel do NOT knock over a couple of chairs and people on the way out the door, you are not doing your job”. The explanation is simple; we react quickly and forcefully to an attack. We attack first and then look for cover. We are aggressive but effective. We fully understand the legalities involved and that each projectile has an address. None of the importance of that is lost on any of us our laws are VERY strict regarding the use of firearms. Even our military use of deadly force is extremely restricted.

Ben May 23, 2013 at 12:19 am

The bronze. The reason I had the other “video” removed was quite simple. It was taken by someone, hacked and redone according to his whim, and posed as a video I posted. All of this together with some absurd verbiage about “Tier Zero….” bullshit.
I do not allow copyright violations and I do not allow others to hack my videos for thief own personal gain.

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thebronze May 24, 2013 at 11:53 pm

*cough* bullshit *cough*

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Squirreltactical May 23, 2013 at 11:18 pm

Well, I’m not an operator who operates operationally, so I can’t argue with you, but I do appreciate the tactful response, Ben. :)

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Ben May 24, 2013 at 01:17 am

Maybe one day I will become that mythical operator who operates operationally on a multi orgasmic level and destroys the worlds enemies with pure mind control.
Until then, I will continue doing the best I can to take the average person and build their mental fortitude and technical abilities.

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John May 24, 2013 at 05:18 am

That was good, Mr. Goldstein. Lots of skepticism in the comments, but thanks for keeping it light. I appreciate your responses thus far.

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Ben May 24, 2013 at 07:36 am

I welcome challenge and discord. It makes us stronger and smarter. By “going with the flow” a person truly cannot break outside of the box.

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Regulus May 24, 2013 at 11:25 am

you are a fool Ben. Time to pick a new career

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Ben May 26, 2013 at 10:44 pm

A fool? Lol. That’s a hell of a though out response.

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Grim May 24, 2013 at 02:28 pm
Fredrico May 26, 2013 at 01:26 pm

Stick with bagels bro.
You wack shit is deadly, unfortunately it’s deadly to the good guys.
Shalom

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Ben May 26, 2013 at 10:51 pm

Oh man. I could use a bagel right about now. Lox and cream cheese…
Then I will go to Wall Street, which of course I control by keeping it all balanced on my oversized Jew nose. Then I will talk to my contacts in Hollywood since we, Jews, control that as well, and make a movie based on socialist values. And then, maybe I’ll find some bubonic plague to spread to the World since of course, the Jews were also responsible for Plague. Lets see, did I forget anything overtly anti Jew? If I remember, I’ll list it.

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Mitch May 27, 2013 at 07:33 pm

LOL DUDE you are like the black friends that make black jokes… No one ever knows how to respond…

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