Krav Maga And The Mechanics Of A Pistol Disarm

If you haven’t done this… bro do you even operate?

Qualifications: Thick operator beards.

Buck Yeager talked about this in the past too, so I’m not surprised at the results.  Decent thing to know I suppose, even though most of you will probably not be in a hand to hand gun tussle with someone holding a loaded handgun.  Notice I said “most of YOU”… yea I operate operationally in operations so I do this kind of thing on the reg, it’s really not even a thing anymore.

Operator-Krav-Maga-Pistol-DisarmThoughts?

Hat tip: Matt, Bart

27 COMMENTS

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John June 8, 2013 at 02:14 am

The fuck is going on, on that youtube page? SMR for defensive courses? Foam rolling is foam rolling, there is no school of thought purely for the defensive person, jesus f christ.

And this video, well.

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overkill556x45 June 8, 2013 at 04:26 am

The question isn’t “what if the gun goes off”, it is “what if the gun goes off while it’s pointed at my head?”. This move works great if: the assailant doesn’t really want to shoot you, they’re aiming at your head (making it easier to point the gun away), you’re a young Jackie Chan, and you’re living in a movie.

If operational operators feel they have to teach this crap, at least preface it by saying “this is an absolute last-ditch, final option.”. I’d like to see some tier zero operators do this move while some scrub like me is pointing an airsoft gun at them. My guess is that about 99% of the time, they’d get shot. Yes, doing this move is better than accepting your fate, but the odds of being caught in this situation (for those of us who aren’t tier zero operators, or 7-11 clerks) is almost zero. If I shell out big money to go to tier zero school, I want to shoot my gun, not live out my Rush Hour fantasy.

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TLW June 8, 2013 at 05:20 am

The main issue here is that if someone is holding you at gunpoint and they aren’t completely stupid, they will just stand a few feet away so you cant grab the gun. However, this was an interesting demonstration. I assume that since the slide is unable to gain any momentum, it is not able to cause any harm. On the other hand you probably wouldn’t want to try this with a revolver.

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Quint Young June 9, 2013 at 10:12 pm

Or they’ll hold it lower and closer to their chest in a stronger position of power, were they have more control over the weapon.

The typical “grab/slap the gun away” technique that most self defense courses teach only works well if the person has their arm fully extended

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doyletoo June 8, 2013 at 06:26 am

I’m gonna take an unusual stand on this and come down on the side of the Krav Maga guys.

1. as i understood it, the whole point of the vid is to demonstrate that the grasping the slide inhibits the cycling of the pistol. successful. point made.

2. they went to the trouble to do this
a. at a range right against the berm
b. with a clear “don’t do this at home”
c. slowly and deliberately

3. Lastly, I’ve had some Krav Maga instruction. The moves like this I was shown involved having a pistol
facing your or at the back of your head. These guys didn’t do that for safety reasons I assume.

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SittingDown June 8, 2013 at 07:25 am

I can just hear Penn and Teller on this one. LOL

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Regulus June 8, 2013 at 08:39 am

Hipsters are coming into the firearms community now :-(

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David June 8, 2013 at 08:43 am

This bearded douchebag meme is getting pretty old now.

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Daniel June 8, 2013 at 11:17 am

I’ve taken a lot of KM instruction. By the time you get to this kind of stuff, you’ve already had a metric-shit-ton of other instruction on how to deal with all kinds of situations. This is just another scenario. My instructors also made it clear that it’s a last ditch effort, and you or somebody else is probably going to get shot, even if you do this successfully. The point is that I’d rather have instruction on how to deal with this rather than “oh well, when they’re at this point, just give up, you’re fucked.”

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Daniel June 8, 2013 at 11:39 am

Oh, also, I’d like to point out that if one is in a situation like this, assailant _probably doesn’t want to shoot you_, they want to force you to do something, and they’re trying to intimidate you into doing it.

And to overkill’s point, I _have_ done this with airsoft, the ratio is more like 50/50, and in a real-life situation, it’s probably going to be more like 30/70, ’cause as I pointed out, they’re not really wanting to shoot you, just intimidate you, and secondly, they probably aren’t expecting a reaction like this.

Finally, not sure who these guys are, they’re referencing KM, so I’m guessing they’re a KM shop, not a ‘tier 0 operator’s operation’

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Suburban Sheepdog June 8, 2013 at 03:21 pm

This.

Folks who don’t do KM tend to focus on the disarms because they are easy to criticize out of context. But unless you’re instructor is a hack, they are not taught out of context.

I’m certainly not an operational operator who operates. But I am a regular guy who has some years of good KM instruction from a direct “descendant” of Imi. Grabbing a gun is, by definition, a last resort. It actually works better than folks think it will, if you train at it. I’m not an operational operator who operates, but most of the time I can do it, albeit against other students and instructors.

But yeah, you’re not grabbing a gun unless you think your choices are down to A: get shot for sure, or B: just maybe not get shot if I take the gun.

As for what happens after the first shot, the idea is now you’ve got the gun — which you have likely cleared and used to shoot the bad guy. If not, then HE has the gun, but it’s in a malf of some sort or another and HE has to clear it, giving you the chance, one presumes, to continue to take the attack to him, either with your own weapon or otherwise. (And the presumption is that thug types don’t spend too much time practicing immediate action drills.)

Again, the notion is that if you are doing any of this, it’s because your choice is to do it or surrender and you have chosen not to surrender. You’re being served a shit sandwich either way. Fighting in what South Narc calls the FUT (fucked up tangle) is no science; but it beats getting on your knees.

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overkill556x45 June 8, 2013 at 06:09 pm

I agree with teaching this as described by you two. It’s the last chance, and you have to accept that you’re getting shot no matter what (hopefully a peripheral hit if you do the gun grab).

I get REALLY bent out of shape when hack instructors teach this like it will work out perfectly every time. If you want me to freak out, teach this move without a disclaimer, or teach people to clear their houses by themselves. (FM 7-8 and ten years of personal experience operating in operational operations disagrees)

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Suburban Sheepdog June 8, 2013 at 06:41 pm

‘struth

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Suburban Sheepdog June 8, 2013 at 06:42 pm

. . . unless *your* instructor . . .

Good Lord, I must have been having a stroke.

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Daniel June 8, 2013 at 07:49 pm

Agreed.

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Al T. June 8, 2013 at 11:34 am

I’m with doyletoo on this one. I’ve also had an instructor place the palm of his hand against the back of the slide (like you are smacking the slide to seat it) and fire a shot. The slide does not come back, which was his point. In that context, it was to show us why learning to clear malfunctions is a key skill – the malf could be caused by your opponent’s gun grab.

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Max June 8, 2013 at 02:29 pm

I hate cliffhangers like this. I am now looking forward to “Operators Operating Operationally Part II” so I can see what the Beard Bros do after the first round has been fired.

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dave w June 8, 2013 at 02:36 pm

this is a good beginning, but when i operate in situations like this i can grab the slide, release the lock, remove the barrel and put it back together without them realizing.

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Regulus June 8, 2013 at 07:06 pm

I’m selling my AR15 so i can buy a single shot Sharps rifle. I’m tired and burnt out of all the tatical shit. if you want to buy it reply and ill give you my email

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Hipster Custer June 9, 2013 at 03:48 am

I operated with a Sharps rifle before it was cool. You probably never heard of my single shot operations.

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05RC51 June 9, 2013 at 03:56 am

Derp…

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Jason June 9, 2013 at 11:08 am

Just so nobody thinks this is a good idea. A key point they miss in this video is that your first action in disarm is moving the muzzle off line of you, only then would you grab the pistol. E.g. with an open hand, redirect the weapon away from you, then close your hand around the gun. Otherwise you run the risk of grabbing and stabilizing the barrel when it’s pointed right at you.

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Suburban Sheepdog June 9, 2013 at 12:09 pm

Actually, he mentions moving off the line first thing.

(Yeah, I get a little defendy when it comes to KM. Most of the criticism seems to come, as I said, from things taken out of context or from poor, unqualified instructors — of which there are sadly many.)

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kingof9x June 10, 2013 at 04:33 pm

I use a tacticool revolver so your “grun grabs” won’t stop me from shooting all six rounds.

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Daniel June 10, 2013 at 05:44 pm

Well, that’s only the first part of the move, the rest of it is designed to snap your trigger finger.

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Timothy W. Derifield June 13, 2013 at 07:57 pm

Full disclosure: too long; didn’t watch it all. But I’m going to comment anyway. I carry the Beretta M9 as a duty weapon. It doesn’t got out of battery as easy as Glock (which appears to be what they are using) and with the top of the slide cut away I think you could potentially foul up your hand doing this. I would never try it but, being a fan of train wrecks, I wouldn’t mind seeing someone else do it.

Incidentally, we had a guy who got the webbing of his thumb/first finger caught in the slide his first day on the range because he had too high of a grip. I wasn’t there, but I hear it hurt.

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J June 21, 2013 at 01:30 pm

You operate operationally in operations? hahahaha you are a fucking joke

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