Cursory Safety Check Then Point Guns At Eachother And Pull The Trigger

Tactical Handgun Operation. A lot of drop-leg holsters and single knee-pads on these operational operators:

0:00 – Check if everyone’s weapon is unloaded before throwing all caution to the wind.

0:29 – Sunglasses go on… shit is about to get real.

1:00 – Wait… he’s not pointing his gun at the students and pulling the trigger is he?  Oh… YUP… Yes he is. *facepalm*

1:10 – Tells all his students to do the same thing back at him while he walks in front of as many muzzles as possible.

4:00 – Pivot or die.

5:45 – Those pivots and shuffles tho.  AAHAHHAHA

Derp-Tactical-Handgun-OperationDefinitely some good info in this video later on, and most of it does conform to the classic school of thought surprisingly.

Was this a special class for low speed high drag old guys trying to get a break from their wives?

<-- This picture sums the video up beautifully. Thoughts?  Would operate with? Hat tip: no uno

34 COMMENTS

JUMP DOWN ↓ TO ADD ANOTHER

Tekkie September 22, 2014 at 01:00 am

Bad safety principles.

Weird squat stance.

Canadian.

ISIS hired better video editors.

2/10. Would not operate with.

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Tantal74 September 22, 2014 at 01:48 am

Neat. A bunch of very old well established techniques (though not necessarily good) with the addition of a healthy dose of mediocrity and contradictory lessons. My favorite part was “We teach to always take a knee so we stay dynamic”. Dynamically doing the same thing over and over…for dynamics. Overall I’ve seen much worse. I’m looking at you VIPERS Academy.

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JohnnyIShootStuff September 22, 2014 at 03:35 am

A yellow training barrel costs just $12. There’s no reason not to have one if you’re in the business of training.

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Ben Branan September 22, 2014 at 05:09 am

this is how people die during classes. This instructor just doesn’t know anything about teaching a class. He points the guns at students and then has three lines pointing guns at everyone. He’s probably done it a bunch and will continue to do it. This is how we end up with 9 year olds killing instructors by accident. Every student thinks this is okay and will teach others the same way.

For you instructors out there: Demestrate the technique, check everyone’s weapons, then have them form a semi circle facing the burm. They practice the technique dry and you get to watch from the center of the circle. No one needs to point a gun at each other.

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Iain September 23, 2014 at 12:08 pm

Are you suggesting the students face inward with everyone pointing guns at the instructor with this technique? OR The students are in a semicircle facing outward with the instructor in the center?

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Frank September 22, 2014 at 05:58 am

I’ve seen some messed up training methods in the IDF and most of it made me want to vomit.
Most of the South Africans, Russians, and Americans with firearms experience, ignored everything firearms related in boot camp.

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Jeep September 22, 2014 at 05:58 am

0:00 is he checking the weapons? I’m so disappointed, I thought first that he was blessing them, and sort of applying black magic that blocks bullets from shooting the instructor…

25 minutes of my life are too precious for me to waste them, so I’ve just watched the 4 first and say it is representative of the rest… soooooo… lame.
(Damn I turn into a mainstream media journalist !!)

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Frank September 22, 2014 at 06:11 am

This statement from another poster on another board said this:
dmd45
“I have lived, shot, and served in Israel for many years, and I am very familiar with the “Israeli Carry”. It is certainly not the fastest way to get into action, but it is the safest for barely-trained civilian carry in the usual crowded Israeli civilian environments (schools, busses, streets, malls, etc). A dropped gun will not fire, and a lost or misplaced gun found in cond 3 is safer than in cond 1. […]

The only fast and safe way of training and carry for those non-gun folks was cond 3 and rack on the draw. This out-moded cond 3 carry has carried over till this day–even tho there are much better and faster methods now available–I certainly do not use it and rely on cond 1 in all of my EDC guns[…]”
Source: pistol-training.com/archives/183#more-183

And I support that statement.

As for the video, too much balagan.

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Jeep September 22, 2014 at 07:48 am

Thanks for the historical explanation of the WHY of the Israeli Carry.
Finally, I have an explanation… And I agree it’s better to carry it this way, if you’re not confident with your firearm.

Still, I don’t think that NOW there are much “barely trained” weapon-carrying civilians in Israel. Conscription has been compulsory for everybody for over 2 generations… Even if in fact, roughly 50% of the population actually spent time in the military, those who choose to carry a firearm are most likely well acquainted with handling a gun, if not well trained at shooting it.

So, if Cond 3 carry is still taught in Israel, maybe they should start updating their training on this point…

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Frank September 27, 2014 at 09:13 am

EVERYONE goes through bootcamp, unless they do “national service” which is basically taking care of old people or putting retarded children on horses for “therapy”.

Boot-camp is ONE MONTH long. Most people grudgingly handle firearms, other are in “combat” or “combat support” positions. I knew people in bootcamp who passed and out of 30 rounds or so, they hit twice. The firearms instruction in bootcamp is shit.

Yes there are guys who go into combat and they are trained on how to use a firearm, but most puss out when carrying condition 1. Most don’t even carry a magazine in their rifle. As for people who carry pistols. As far as I was informed you must open carry 24/7 if you have a firearm.

If you’d like and you have an AR-15, shoot the admin an email so he can forward me your email address.

And I’ll mail you and him, provided you’re comfortable receiving packages from Israel, one of the “chamber flags” they use on the rifles. They’re neat and a great idea, but frankly speaking I don’t like ’em, and they made me feel like a little kid.

Rifle chamber flags eject like a regular spent shell. This way you can open carry and people can clearly see the rifle is not on condition 1, but you don’t have to do any bullshit ninja-hands to remove the chamber flag. I still hate them.

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Erik September 22, 2014 at 07:16 am

Ah the good ol “poop while standing up” stance so favored in those regions.

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Gwolf September 22, 2014 at 04:19 pm

Maybe he had to press check his hemorrhoids.

(The fact that I can spell that without using spell check proves that I am old.)

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AaronY September 22, 2014 at 10:39 pm

After seeing so much derp with that stance, I call it “the Israeli spread eagle.”

Also I love it how some people are saying “Israeli’s aren’t showy!” BULLSHIT! I’ve seen Israeli’s that would make Costa jizz in his pants.

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Todd S September 22, 2014 at 08:38 am

I just did some excellent training where we pointed guns at each other, but only after running a yellow rope through the bore and magazine well of the pistol and leaving it there. And no “cursory check” either, both participants checked the firearm.

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Regulus September 22, 2014 at 09:18 am

I just don’t know what to say

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jeff September 22, 2014 at 10:50 am

what a moron. one of the fundamental rules of firearm safety is do not point the firearm at anything you do not intend to shoot/destroy!!!
if that asshole pointed a gun at me i would walk out of the friggin class FACEPALM

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SittingDown September 22, 2014 at 10:54 am

I expected him to pull an alien baby dance at any moment…

http://youtu.be/aVZUVeMtYXc

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Matt September 22, 2014 at 10:54 am

@3:11: Student have trouble with the drill? QUICK! Pan the camera away!

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Matt September 22, 2014 at 10:55 am

@3:11: Student have trouble with the drill? QUICK! Pan the camera away!!!

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Maluka September 22, 2014 at 12:31 pm

I have been involved with weapons (safety, teaching, using, defending) for over 60 years. This “technique” is stupid and dangerous.

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Gwolf September 22, 2014 at 04:00 pm

Would not operate with.

They do not have appropriate tactical luggage on hand.

You cannot operate without appropriate tactical luggage.

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Iain September 23, 2014 at 10:52 am

Very true. The only thing more important than tactical luggage is tactical patches. You have to put patches on everything.

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Gwolf September 23, 2014 at 03:53 pm

They especially need to go on the luggage so people know that you aren’t there to fuck around and have been in the shit. So to speak.

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Iain September 23, 2014 at 04:13 pm

True. I like to place patches on my fleece jacket and my tactical man satchel. That way I can be an operator every day.

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Paste September 22, 2014 at 06:52 pm

Would not operate/train with, for fear of contracting tuberculosis from shitty instructor’s perpetual nervous cough.

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czbeardly September 23, 2014 at 12:26 am

We do not get fancy-pants cool operators holding operation classes for operationless operators in traning, but damnit, how easy is it to open a traning school over there in the US? Seriously – is all you need a gun, some fancy name for your “school”, a backstory so over the top that people do not dare ask you about it, and to top it off – serious dancemoves?

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Gwolf September 23, 2014 at 03:58 pm

You will need the following:

1. Tactical Luggage
2. Tactical Patches
3. Tactical Good Skin
4. Tactical Beard
5. Tactical Shaved Head
6. Tactical Wrap Around Sunglasses
7. Tactical Beer Gut
8. Tactical Tattoos
9. Tactical Sidekick with Tactical Nervous Tics
10. Tactical Rifle with Tactical Accessories

Boom! Headshot! You’re a YouTube star!

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czbeardly September 24, 2014 at 01:31 am

I am missing, 1, 2, 6, 8… fuck I am 60% there :< oh noesesss

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mafbloggerdanny September 23, 2014 at 12:29 am

YouTube’s anti-shake software was working overtime on this video
Gives the whole thing a really trippy effect

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Big Blue September 23, 2014 at 11:07 am

He’ll have buns of steel doing all those squats.

As for C3 “Israeli carry”, from a total risk management perspective it actually makes a hell of a lot of sense for non-MIL/LEO/people out in the Alaskan wilderness.

Emphasis on TOTAL RISK.

Okay so you carry a firearm because something bad might happen. Got it. All for it.
Now what’s the odds of that actually happening? Unless your job puts you in a place where it is likely, the odds are pretty low. Probably never, maybe once ever few years.

Okay so let’s say once every 2 years you have to pull your gun out. Note I didn’t say shoot it, just pull it out; but of course you want it ready to shoot in said situation – got it.
That means the other 364 days of the year * 2 your gun is doing absolutely fuck all aside from going to the range.. where carry condition is irrelevant (aside from training consistency).

What I’m saying is you have to balance the risk of that half second or second it takes to cock a slide against the thousands of hours of carry and handling and every day life. Move past dreamy notions of a gunfight and embrace the reality that your gun will probably never be used against anyone.

Most accidents happen when the firearm is being handled (duh). A properly maintained firearm of decent manufacture doesn’t just ‘go off’. So for people that need to handle their firearms a lot (maybe you go through security or need to store/transport it unchambered due to an administrative rule, e.g. courthouse) – C3 makes a lot of sense. Forget reasonable – what’s more probable? That you’ll die because that extra second to cock was too long when the need to defend yourself arose or that you’ll ND from loading/unloading the gun multiple times a day, every day? Again, your answer maybe different.

Where’s that leave us? C3 being pretty sensible for a lot of people. Now I’m not saying you have to – but don’t berate those that do. If you choose to carry in a different configuration – more power to you. But don’t assume that those who carry otherwise are ‘idiots’ or ‘untrained’, etc. They may simply have embraced a different risk philosophy than you based on their requirements.

For example I don’t store my ARs loaded at home. I store one at the ready with a loaded magazine in the well, with a safety flag that has an extractor pin. It is essentially unloaded and that is easily verified, but it just needs a quick charge and is good to go. I can’t think of a situation where the minutes it would take me to get the firearm after recognizing a threat would be screwed up because of the half second it takes me to charge the weapon.

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Iain September 23, 2014 at 01:51 pm

The Israeli techniques are so backwards. I don’t understand why people fall for all these Israeli shooting schools.

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SittingDown September 23, 2014 at 03:32 pm

If a school claims it’s instructor is former Duvdevan and the guy looks like he’s taking a shit while shooting, you know it’s time to move on.

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Lee September 23, 2014 at 07:52 pm

This stuff is getting worse than when every clown around town opened a karate dojo in the 80s and just pushed out black belts. Your better off watching a few magpul or yeager videos, maybe read a book, and learn on your own.

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James Earl Jones October 1, 2014 at 04:52 pm

That frame rate was giving me a dynamic migraine.

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