Kosher Costa And The Bottomless Pit Of Israeli Tactical Derp

The Israelis make my job easy.  Kosher Costa shows us what’s up:

Everything was just talking up until 1:10.  Cool widened fat horse stance bro…. oh… oh… oh LAWWWWWD this is beautiful:

masada-tactical-israeli-shooting

Robot cheek index!  haha the temple index was SOOoooooo last week.

If this actually works for the Israelis I’m convinced it’s because the enemy is bent over LOL’ing.

5:42 – “Part of the presentation is loading a round”  <— yea tell me more about how this method is better than carrying one in the chamber.

Someone needs to develop an Israeli training aid that has a fat cartoon horse to sit on, which is connected to cheek pads.  The whole thing could have a hinge on one side to drop down to the ground for the “take a knee” reloads.

7:27 – Getting gently patted while you’re doing pushups  and assembling your firearm is like Navy Seal Special Ranger Recon Advanced Hyper Special Ops style training.

Kosher-CostaIf you like what you see, and want to learn more about the fat horse stance and robot cheek index make sure to train with Masada Tactical.  They are based out of Baltimore, MD… the kosher tactical Jewish training epicenter of the universe (I made that last part up).

Thoughts?

Hat tip: Brandon, Dawud

69 COMMENTS

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Gizmo September 24, 2014 at 12:48 am

You know how in the 80s all those “karate” schools popped up with a lot of them being ran by people that actually weren’t karate experts? I’m starting to think this is the Israeli equivalent.

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nmgene March 12, 2015 at 02:30 pm

This video is a joke, cant hear the man talking for the wind noise. I draw and put 2 center of mass from the hip in 1.5 seconds. The 3rd one is aimed and put in the head just incase they have a bullet proof vest on !!!!! I always have one in the chamber !!!!! Too much time racking the slide will kill you !!!!! I am not good, the guys who shoot in competiton can draw and hit 5 targets in 2.38 seconds. It takes me 3 seconds !!!!!!!

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Jeep September 24, 2014 at 01:16 am

HA HA HA HA HA !!!
I burst into laughing when the dude fell in “nice squat position” with his left hand under his chin…

They look like flight attendants showing you the emergency exits and how to inflate your life jacket… LOVE ‘EM !

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Jeep September 24, 2014 at 01:28 am

OHHHH, and I forgot the 4:40 good ‘ol “walk right in front of the gun once some guy just inserted a magazine”. (no, I don’t care that the mag is empty).

I thought this was almost not too ridiculous when HE was doing his little dance moves, because it’s swift and all, but then I saw the footage at the end, where the pat him on the shoulders and head, and I realized they were just making this whole thing up.

Explain to me, please, how you raise both your elbows like this IN a vehicle.

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czbeardly September 24, 2014 at 01:22 am

Dat cornfield.. mmhmm…

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Whacker15 September 24, 2014 at 03:41 am

Oh boy I’m right down the road from them!

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Whacker15 September 24, 2014 at 03:54 am

I think he tried selling my girlfriend skin care products at the mall. Those Dead Sea product kiosks are soooo annoying!

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Gideon_459 September 24, 2014 at 07:27 am

Gross Motor Skill: Walking, breathing etc
Fine Motor Skills: everything related to operating a firearm
I’d love to see an IDPA match shot entirely by graduates of 2 day shooting classes. Half Israeli style half from a reputable American instructor. For the lolz.

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James Rustler September 24, 2014 at 07:53 am

You are doing God’s work, Mike.

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zack mars September 24, 2014 at 08:39 am

he’s on a mission from god.

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czbeardly September 24, 2014 at 08:34 am

I Think I am going to use dat eagle arm stance at the next IPSC match. Will win by default. All the wins!

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heavyfire7537 September 24, 2014 at 12:29 pm

I love how after his reload, he fired once and the magazine fell out. Is that a secret Massad technique?

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Jeep September 24, 2014 at 12:29 pm

The fact that no operator has never been seen using this technique is another proof that it’s great and useful. Them operators are so stealth and so under the radar…

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Tacbear September 27, 2014 at 11:35 am

The Israelis have taught this technique for many years. It was designed back when they carried sidearms with an empty chamber as a way to draw and chamber quickly. I am an Instructor myself and teach the Central Axis Relock method to SWAT teams and Isosceles to civilians. The Instructor in the video is a friend and is very knowledgeable. He also teaches CQB and Defensive (Krav Magra) Tactics. I went through his Israeli Point Shooting class and we have had discussions about the differences between what we teach and what they teach. He told me that the reason that they teach every movement by the numbers and use such gross exaggerated movements is the system is taught to hundreds of recruits of differing ability at a time. The gross movements are not so gross under stress. Take the time to go to youtube and type in “Israeli Point Shooting” and you will see the it is not so “Goofy” looking in real time. I myself will never teach this system because it is very uncomfortable (legs spread, standing with your back straight). The Israelis have been fighting for a long time and have never lost so I guess it works for them.

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APOD Group September 28, 2014 at 12:22 pm

I wouldn’t call what he is teaching as gross motor skills especially when you have a serious of steps or “numbers” to get to the end result. Drawing from an empty pistol is not needed especially if you practice keeping your finger out of the trigger well like all Americans operators do. It doesn’t really matter how many people these tactics were taught to, the tactics are ridiculous.

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Tacbear September 29, 2014 at 10:56 am

I agree the tactics are not something I would teach…but they are actually taught in Israel to IDF soldiers.

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achmed October 1, 2014 at 11:57 am

It’s all a comment on how bad Arabs suck.

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Ross September 24, 2014 at 03:19 pm

I didn’t know twisting your arm made the gun shoot more accurately. This is interesting news.

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Jeremy Knauff September 28, 2014 at 11:27 am

Yeah, didn’t you ever see “Wanted?”

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overkill556x45 September 24, 2014 at 04:02 pm

6:29-31. I see no hits on paper, fails reload, plunks one into the lathe, causing the target to bounce–all from three big steps away.

Shut up and take my money!

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overkill556x45 September 24, 2014 at 04:10 pm

Edit: watched in HD and I think I see four hits very near the borders of the head. Still, obviously plunked the lathe on the botched reload, and made a massive group at 10′. I want to see this guy do USPSA CM 09-14.

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Ken September 24, 2014 at 05:17 pm

I usually stop watching a video within the first minute when the sound of the wind/breeze covers the sound of whoever is talking. For crying out loud, mic up or something.

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mitori September 24, 2014 at 05:24 pm

Who’d a thought there’d be a Derpa holster and an eXtreme Derp pistol in a video this awesome?

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Paste September 24, 2014 at 07:13 pm

Taking a knee to reload at 3 yards from your threat is obviously some next level technique. I’d have never thought of that.

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ENDO-Mike September 24, 2014 at 07:22 pm

No doubt. I’m not operator enough to understand how crucial that knee reload is apparently.

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AaronY September 24, 2014 at 11:01 pm

@ 1:00 in that vid, “but under stress, we realize it’s too fine motor depended.” Everything about shooting is a FINE MOTOR SKILL! GTFO of this fine vs gross motor skill bullshit.

Also thinking about it while watching this vid. It appears to me that “Israeli combating shooting” is just their equivalent to US big Army/Marine training, as in meant for the masses who never fired a gun before…

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Jeep September 25, 2014 at 12:04 am

That’s even more ridiculous then, to teach them Mossad Ninja-level operator’s techniques… If they’ve never fired a round before, let them do it the simple way, and THEN they improve.
I want to see this guy learning how to ride a horse, starting with cross-country obstacles race…

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Mike W September 25, 2014 at 12:04 am

A lot of this Israeli Technique taught in America is outdated byproducts of the days of the Hagganah (spelled wrong, probably), such as carrying without one in the chamber. They had such a mix match of pistols there was no one standard Manual of Arms, and has just carried over the years. Besides this shooting now be a joke, did no one else notice Tactical Robin Williams was the demonstrator?

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Scott September 25, 2014 at 06:11 am

In their defense, it doesn’t look as derpy in full speed. Slow motion is another story…

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tom September 25, 2014 at 10:04 am

No snark comments about the narrator “appendix carrying” right over his johnson? What’s that all about?

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dxcapps September 25, 2014 at 10:17 am

Having recently attended this school this past year I can promise you that it feels as goofy as it looks. During the school we never ran “Israeli no bullet in the chamber” the instructor, his name is BK BTW, doesn’t believe in it.

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overkill556x45 September 25, 2014 at 03:27 pm

Oh my god. Watch this with captions on. 1:19 “feet apart the other night role model body why do you fap”

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Jesse September 25, 2014 at 05:15 pm

Why do I fap? Because real girls don’t want to talk to me and the outside is a lot scarier than the couch right in front of my TV.

Sad face.

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ENDO-Mike September 25, 2014 at 05:43 pm

lol amazing. The first thing he says too is “you my name is being gay” lolol

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Gwolf September 25, 2014 at 07:13 pm

Holy shit!

When did Teller quit being Penn’s sidekick and sign up with Kosher Costa?

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Delray Silverback September 25, 2014 at 08:51 pm

Td;cw

Too derpy; couldn’t watch

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APOD Group September 26, 2014 at 10:09 am

These tactics will get you killed in a real fire fight. It all looks fancy and cool but is impractical in a real scenario. Loading in the static position will get you killed. Other tactics that I’ve seen taught by “isreali shooting tactics” are drawing an unloaded pistol from the holster to chamber a round and engage, and charging at your attacker when you are out of ammunition. For the average shooter that doesn’t know any better it looks cool, but real shooters know it’s BS.

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JohnnyO September 27, 2014 at 09:58 am

Caveat emptor! Out.

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John M. Buol Jr. September 27, 2014 at 03:06 pm

Wait… You mean this isn’t a new Dynamic Pie Concepts video?

It becoming increasingly difficult to differentiate between the intentionally humorous and the tactical derp.

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BMC September 28, 2014 at 05:22 pm

We have to believe the instructor. He’s Israeli. And everyone knows all Israeli’s are to firearm tactics like all Chinese are to kung fu. Right?

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L.hazelwoodjr September 29, 2014 at 10:10 am

I didn’t know that positioning your arms like chicken wings could totally change the bone structure of your arms. Now my arms are way straighter and I always get head shots. Thanks a bunch.

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Nir Maman September 29, 2014 at 06:17 pm

Hello everyone,

A friend of mine in the industry recently asked me to weigh in on this discussion, I initially didn’t really care to get involved. I gave him my opinion and told him to feel free to post it on here.

I then came on here to read what’s going. It’s nothing short of disappointing. You people are, supposedly, professionals…and in some cases instructors! The scariest notion is seeing individuals with such a lack of intellect, professionalism, and most importantly, maturity, and know that they represent our community….and handle firearms.

It’s a real shame.

Either way, I decided to post my initial response (which is below) to my friend on this subject. I don’t intend on changing anyone’s mind on anything. I’ll reference Mark Twain’s famous quote:

“For those who believe no evidence is necessary. For those who don’t believe, no amount of evidence will ever be enough.”

I do hope that each and every one of you put in the effort of becoming more knowledgeable with facts and becoming more mature. I have an open offer I make at the end of my response, I sure do hope you all take me up on it.

Live with purpose, not opinions.

————————-

Oh boy. What can say. I appreciate you reaching out for my comments on this ‘discussion’, but I don’t know if I will bother to get involved….these days I’m just really too busy to be concerned with high school banter.

Look, In short, they are not 100% wrong with their assessment of this video. I know the instructor, although I can’t attest 100% that he did serve in our Special Forces (because I never verified), he claims that he did and I have no reason to not believe him. That said, he was not an instructor in our service to the best of my recollection.

There are 3 types of Israeli training offered on the open market today (for all of our methodologies, shooting, Krav Maga, etc):

1) Real/legitimate training which is based on our modern approach and is Good. Good enough to say that the rest of the world needs to shut their mouths and open their ears because they have more to learn from us on the subject of real world combat than they can ever teach us.

Fact is the entire world, including the US, lost it’s virginity to modern warfare, especially against terrorism, only 10 years ago, while we (Israel) have been fighting it, to survive (not as a luxury like the US and the rest of the world) for the last 70 years.

I can give conclusive evidence of the above statement by virtue of two prolonged experiences:

First, My position during my last term of service at the Israeli Special Forces Counter Terror School as commander of our International Training Section where my job was to train all the US SpecOp units and the units of the rest of the world involved in the ‘Global War on Terror’ that would be sent to us to learn our methodologies before deploying to Iraq and Afghanistan.

Most of their units came with open minds….and more than enough came with the same piss filled attitudes comprised of more ego than brain and certainly experience (and I am referring to the US’s TOP units), such as the individuals posting on this ‘discussion’.

In the latter instances, I would have to spend more of my time educating them on just how ‘naked’ they were in today’s theater of operations against real terrorism. This was too easy to do. I would simply set up force-on-force scenarios with our instructors playing the ‘terrorists’ and them the ‘good guys’.

I would do nothing more than set up situations that we encounter on a daily basis which they have never even imagined of, let them rely on tactics they use which are based on nothing more than outdated experiences and theories, and let the results speak for themselves.

I have had high ranking commanders of these US Spec Op units apologize to me in person for their unit’s “We know everything” attitudes once they were presented with the results of these scenarios. And, furthermore, there have been numerous US SpecOp units that have incorporated our methodologies and tactics into their current SOPs.

Second: I still spend the majority of my time training Mil and LE Spec Op units around the world in our methodologies. These internet warriors that are making their ridiculous, immature, experience lacking comments, are individuals I encounter regularly. I don’t have one single course I have ever taught, where I did not have the pleasure of putting them in their place with a small dose of reality.

I get it all the time….beginning of the course, they stand there staring at me, chest puffed out, arms crossed, eyes rolling. They leave at the end of the day like wet puppies.

And still, I have had numerous of these units who have adopted our methodologies into their SOPs. We (Israel) have never adopted anyone’s methodologies or tactics till this very day.

Very little of this type of training is to be found unfortunately.

2) Real/Legitimate training which is not good.

There are a lot of Israeli instructors on the open market who are great Warriors, but simply not great instructors. Additionally, there is less than a handful of us (literally) that were both Operational Warriors in Special Units as well as qualified instructors in our service (I am one of them).

A lot of the Israeli training offered on the open market today, is by legitimate instructors who have taken the little they were trained in while in the service, combined it with other sources of training they have learned from, and in the end present a package where not all the pieces fit together cohesively. A lot of the material that is taught on the open market today is also based on much much older methodologies and concepts, which do have sound principles, but are not translated in to practical/tactical applications as effectively as our methodologies today.

This video, and I really don’t want to seem like I am speaking negatively about the instructor, he is a great person and very competent, presents our principles in a platform that is not completely accurate or modern.

As an example, that is not the correct presentation of our stance. Another one, the chambering of the weapon does not happen anywhere near the face or with the elbows propped up that way. From the mid eighties until the mid nineties the sidearm we used was the browning high power which had a very stiff recoil springs, couple that with an army of 18 year old conscripts, the chambering technique had to give enough structural strength for these ‘kids’ to be able to chamber the weapon. So back then the weapon would be brought up between the head and shoulder of the weapon side, this method provided more structural strength to help in the chambering process.

As for the rhetoric being slung around here about the practicality of carrying the weapon chambered vs unchambered and how that one little element dictates the “effectiveness” of our methodology…..again, just a clear display of utter lack of intellect and ability to first ensure facts. The individuals posting on this ‘discussion’ are not warriors by any stretch of the imagination (even though it appears some of them dress up like warriors for work) and they most certainly are not professionals.

The definition of a professional is someone who possesses unbiased expertise on a subject. A true professional can take a subject and be able to perfectly teach both sides of that subject, the side they believe in and the one they oppose. That is how you can be certain that what they say is credible, because they can contrast the believed functionality of both sides and be left with factual remaining inconsistencies which can be weighed against reality.

A true professional will also always ask ‘why’ before concluding. A person who lacks intellect and professionalism will always fight to bend the world around their belief, because the notion that what they have invested their entire efforts into is wrong, is too unbearable. Not only is that outright stupid, but it is also not being human.

The individuals posting here, have been exposed to A) either a false representation of our methodology or B) watched a few YouTube clips with isolated elements of our methodology and based on either one of those draw their conclusions.

We (Israelis) are not the only ones who carry unchambered weapons. There are entities in the US as well as Canada who carry unchambered. We (Israelis) are the only ones smart enough to develop the most efficient methods of deploying from less preferred circumstances. And to clarify, in contrast to the primitive minded opinionaters of this forum, an overwhelming amount of our units/branches in Israel, DO carry chambered rounds. For the ones that don’t, we have our reasons why.

3) Fake Israeli training.

Unfortunately, we have a lot of this on the open market today as well. Training marketed as our real methodologies and taught by people who make false claims about having served in our SF and who teach nonsense they have created or pieced together from multiple sources.

In any event, the majority of the people who have any comment to make, get exposed to one of the 3 categories I listed above, and, make conclusive decisions and judgments based on that single limited exposure.

A very unintelligent way to travel through life. Especially, when they are speaking about a country that is one of the tiniest in the world, that has more enemies than any other country in the world, who’s enemies live their life with the sole purpose of nothing more than making our country extinct, and against all that, we have not only survived, but we continue to thrive.

While these internet warriors come from countries who never have and never will face the threats we do, and who have a military as a luxury, not a necessity. Furthermore, I can assure you that the majority of these people making these comments are not warriors of any kind. They learned some things related to their hobby of shooting, fighting, etc, and suddenly they are the intellectual experts on the subject. Not to mention, especially after 9/11, the entire world has been after learning our/the Israeli methodologies, and so for those who sell training and who do not teach our methodologies, our existence on the open market is not very palatable to them.

Back to the video in question. There are principles presented that do originate from our factual methodology, but they are not necessarily presented in our current/modern approach or platform.

Let me very briefly summarize the true difference between American (I use the term American because the entire world is trained by them and does what they do….and by the way, I love the US and Americans, so please don’t think that I am harping on America!) and Israeli methodologies.

Americans shoots. Israelis fight.

American methodologies are based on and revolve around shooting principles. Israeli methodologies revolve around dynamic fighting implementing the firearm/’shooting’ as nothing more than what it is….a tool to be used in the moment in time where it is the most effective tool for that moment in time.

Anyone that has an ounce of brain, and responsibility if they are instructors, will first ensure and then double check they have the facts before reaching conclusions.

Feel free to post my above assessment of this situation, and if you do, then make sure to attach my name to it. I’m not an internet warrior who hides behind an on-line personality for the sake of giving a perception that I am a somebody.

Anyone with an opinion is more than welcome to attend any of my courses so they can ‘validate’ their opinions. In fact, have any one of these internet heroes on this forum simply reference that they posted on this ‘discussion’ to me, and they can attend any one of my courses for free. The opportunity to help make people smarter, is priceless to me.

Stay safe.

Nir Maman
http://www.CT707.com

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APOD Group September 29, 2014 at 10:11 pm

Because you call it a fact doesn’t mean it’s a fact. You are seriously confused. We have been fighting the world and terrorism far past 10 years ago and I’m not just talking about Muslims. The world doesn’t revolve around Israeli conflicts. For you to think that US tactics are only in shooting and that we don’t and haven’t mastered martial arts in ever style makes you sound naive. I’ve personally attended the same style course that was taught by a former Israeli Secret Serviceman and that is how I know the tactics are silly and impractical. Apparently there are experienced people on this thread that agree. This style is a joke amongst other real gunslingers not internet hero’s or key board commandos as you assumed we are. Any noobee or amateur might think it’s cool because the Israeli name is attached to it but these tactics will get you killed in a real fight.

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dgdimick November 22, 2014 at 04:55 pm

For someone who didn’t want to get involved you sure had a lot to say.

If this was really a “Superior” method you’d see more instructors using it. There is a lot of wasted movement shown here, and I think that has been pointed out as satire in the posts.

Most instructors have not developed unique methods, most take what works, and leave the rest.

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Nir Maman September 29, 2014 at 10:24 pm

But of course you have. Says the expert who hides behind his screen name.

As I mentioned in my post, enjoy living with your theories.

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Nir Maman September 29, 2014 at 10:44 pm

And of course, thank you very much for confirming exactly what I wrote about!

You’ve personally attended one course with an “Israeli secret serviceman” and that’s how you know the tactics are silly and impractical.

Yup, you certainly are the epicenter for knowledge, expertise, and research!

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APOD Group September 30, 2014 at 04:53 am

Who’s hiding? The name APOD Group is private security company and teaches Special Operations Tactics to military and law Enforcement go look it up.

I know the tactics are silly and Impractical because of my over 20 years of experience in Special Operations and PMC work overseas, plus I attended a bullshit course just like it and the instructor was Shin-Bet and IDF. http://www.israelitactical.com/

He wanted me to be an instructor for him and the tactics were so ridiculous I passed. That’s how I know, from experience of the BS tactics and my over 20 years of actual experience applied real war zones not land disputes.

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Nir Maman September 30, 2014 at 06:06 am

The more you type the more you just keep proving my point and just how you walk through life with opinions the size of the world that are platformed on knowledge the size of a breadcrumb.

A real shame. Hopefully one day you show up at one of my courses….like I said, it’s on me.

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APOD Group September 30, 2014 at 08:30 am

You’re an idiot. Proven tactics that the top militaries use and teach is far from opinion. I wouldn’t waste my time on one of your courses. I already wasted 6 hours of my life I can’t get back.

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Nir Maman September 30, 2014 at 08:59 am

Yes, of course, I’m an idiot.

And sadly, again, every time you open your mouth, you just keep reinforcing my points.

Further, the mere context and diction of your correspondences attest to the fact that you have walked every step in your life with the attitude that learning something is a waste of your time. Sad.

If your claimed service is true, than thank you for your service. But sir, your no representation of real world combat, and you most certainly are no professional.

All the best to you.

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ButthurtOperations October 1, 2014 at 01:47 pm

Dude you are getting destroyed on the new post ENDO put up LOL.

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Dima March 18, 2015 at 04:00 pm

I wouldn’t agree with with your first point. See the immidiate entry for CQB for that matter.
As for the pistol shooting drills, being someone who’s trained on and used both I would say that although around a.3 of a second slower, I never missed the slide with the israeli method as opposed to a couple of times I did with a more “western” manipulation.
That was quite enough to make me prefer the israeli way for condition three presentation.

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Wielsucker (@Wielsucker) October 2, 2014 at 04:53 am

Correction: PHAT Horse Stance.

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Wielsucker (@Wielsucker) October 2, 2014 at 05:07 am

Step 1. Wide Horse stance effectively pinning your handgun to your ribs and making sure an ND really gets deep into that leg. (scars & stories sell classes)
Step 2. Extend elbows effectively removing pesky obstacles such as vehicle A/B Pillars or entire buildings
Step 3. Draw awkwardly bringing pistol to your chin where an ND results in an expensive dental procedure.
Step 3. Chamber your gun two-finger slingshot style (while lecturing me about loss of gross motor skills) because you are too dumb to carry your gun ready.
Step 4. Shoot one handed because you broke your left elbow on the B-pillar.
Step 5. Open a shooting school and trade on your operational Israeliness..

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Wielsucker (@Wielsucker) October 2, 2014 at 06:18 am

Me no count gud…

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ENDO-Mike October 5, 2014 at 07:17 pm

Perfect summary / “how to”.

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Wielsucker (@Wielsucker) October 12, 2014 at 02:55 pm

Why thank you. Man, these Israeli fan boys are pretty butthurt. Mind you, I support the Israelis 100% but the empty chamber is tribal baggage that is a bad idea. Institutional inertia keeps dumb shit like this alive. Most of the rest of that crap is just trying to get tactically noticed like the half the Costa/Magpul dance moves.

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Austin October 11, 2014 at 07:21 pm

Has anyone actually mentioned why the Israeli’s don’t carry a round in the chamber? Let me explain (and no, I’m not Jewish or Israeli)

TJ Johnston (a renowned shooting instructor) was talking about this recently. The reason is because the Israeli’s are constantly at risk of someone stealing their gun from them, such as a terrorist. They operate in a very hostile environment. That’s why the Israeli’s often use level 3 retention holsters as well. As they present the gun towards the target they rack the slide. It’s simple and actually very fast with practice.

Just thought I would let everyone know since there seems to be a lot of ignorance going around from armchair commandos.

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ENDO-Mike October 11, 2014 at 07:27 pm

That’s hardly a justification… “someone might steal it from me”. Like the “terrorist” couldn’t just rack the slide easily too? What’s their solution to the probability of the “terrorist” knowing how to do that being extremely high?

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Austin October 11, 2014 at 08:51 pm

I’m just explaining why they do it. Someone that grabs a gun is likely going to expect it to be ready to go once they pull the trigger. If it doesn’t shoot then they are going to rack the slide (if they know what they are doing), and that gives a commando a short window of opportunity to react…potentially disarming the threat.

Just clarifying because you seem to think these guys just made this up. If you think the IDF should change this practice then you should shoot them an e-mail, since they apparently don’t know what they’re doing.

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Wielsucker October 11, 2014 at 07:38 pm

Yeah, because terrorists in that part of the world don’t have any guns…. It’s just conscript army nonsense.

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tacbear October 12, 2014 at 07:45 am

I was told that the Israelis USE TO CARRY W/O A ROUND in the chamber because civilians and military were having too many unintentional discharges. This was told to me by the instructor in the video when I attended his point shooting class. He said they now carry with a round in the chamber. This technique is still taught and works pretty good if you are drawing and chambering a round. The gross motor skills are taught with the hope that under extreme stress all the steps of the draw will be performed smoothly by the soldier. This is not an advanced technique, it is taught to IDF recruits. If you google “Israeli point shooting” and watch some of the videos you will see that in real time it doesn’t look quite like in the video. The instructor in the video “BK” is very knowledgeable and very good instructor. This is only part of what he teaches.

I am a professional and I always have an open mind. I know that no matter how much training I do or how many schools I attend or teach, I continue to learn everyday. I know a lot of SWAT professionals that have attended this Israeli point shooting class and only one that has adopted it. Most agree that it is very uncomfortable and just doesn’t work for them. I will repeat something I have said in earlier comments. The Israelis have been surrounded by enemy’s and fighting for their survival for a long time. If this method works for them, God Blees Them.

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nobody_nowhere December 27, 2014 at 05:17 am

Sorry, guys, I am writing anonimously mostly because I have no interest to register as permanent user and also because I am not qualified enough to take part in your discussions, so I prefer not to embarrass myself. I am former israeli citizen, amateur shooter and only want to give some background of current state of things.
The whole gun policies in Israel are derived from old firearms law (1949), back to the days of Independence war. This law stated that there is no right of carrying and possessing firearms for the citizens, but only a privilege, which is granted (or not) by some department of some ministry based on their own reasoning. Clerks of this department shape rules and apply them. The privilege is not permanent and is easily revokable. But until beginning of 90’s it was not a big problem for an average person to obtain the license. In beginning of 90’s there started a new trend in firearms policies which worsened with the years – it is known as ‘reduction’ policy. Under this policy the licensing had gradually diminished until it hit some unprecedented lows. In these days actually very few people may obtain the license for possessing – mostly security figures, sportsmen, residents of some areas, and some professionals, like ambulance drivers. Even soldiers are not allowed to hold private license. Some stats will help you to understand the picture: today in Israel live 8M people and there are less than 150K private firearms. The quantity decrease each year. There are about 400-500 IPSC shooters (and I must confess, most of them are vivid enthusiasts and good professionals), while only 2 thirds are active ones. IPSC shooters are required to participate in many contests – just to obtain or keep their licenses. The shooting ranges are closing because of low demand, there is very small market of weapons, ammo and accessories and a lot of restrictions imposed on trade of all items that somehow related to arms.
The total state of mind in Israel is that the regular citizen has no need whatsoever to possess firearms, and in any case must rely on security forces – they will do all the work on the best side, be assured:). As a result, most of young persons meet the firearms only in the army for one month +/-, those who proceed to combat path of course see the firearms more time, and after the military discharge they see the weapon only at reservist service. More of this – they are mostly taught by instructors of the same age, girls and boys that had a crash course in weapon disciplines and may only quote manuals compiled by some higher ranks. They obey to orders of their commanders and in most cases do not understand all nuances of tools, they work with.
In the bottom line – the whole state of mind in Israel is that armed citizen is dangerous barbarian psycho which hardly can be talked to and the less they are – the better. the worst is that many of weapon possessors share that idea to some extent. So I conclude that the culture of firearms that was existing in Israel until early 90’s is irreversibly destroyed this days – take it into account while discussing fat mammal stances :)
That’s all.

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dgdimick December 27, 2014 at 12:03 pm

Thanks for the insight. Its sad Israel has such a poor understanding of what makes you safe. Then again most libtards don’t let a little thing like facts get in the way.

As for you feeling you don’t know enough to post here, just remember, any site that will let me post, isn’t a site worth reading. So dive in, the water is normally boiling, and someone is always ready to make fun of you just to keep you grounded. Think of it like being back in the military without the early morning formations. You know, the ones where you where trying not to barf on your feet.

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BK Blankchtein March 12, 2015 at 10:38 am

All,

I am not sure if I should be flattered for being compared to costa or not…but I wanted to drop in my two cents…after all, I am the instructor in the video so I think it’s only fair.
People tend to ridicule what they haven’t tried or unfamiliar with. Basin your total experience of the technique on an 8-minute video representing a style that takes a few days to master, is kind of lame, don’t you think?
Yes, everything in the video is exaggerated to emphasize learning principles for the students. under stress we assume a diminished performance so if we teach students to exaggerate than under stress they will be able to apply the main principles. Bottom line is that these skills are taught to 18 year old kids in Israel, and it gets them to be effective in combat in a relative short time period. It is not for everybody. Those who have been around for a while know to try things out, pick what works for them, and make it work for their unique circumstances. Your tools, tactics, mission, policies etc. are all factored in. So this may not be for you, but until you try it you should keep an open mind and see if maybe something does make your life easier.

I want to invite you all to try it. We teach this LE and military units all over the world, and they are all skeptical…until they go through two days of training and are hitting targets without thinking about it. you won’t get bullseyes with this, but in combat you’ll be faster and more accurate than most. Proven. So…come shoot with me, we’ll argues stuff out, we’ll have some friendly competition, maybe a couple of beers, and then you can tell me what you really think of it…based on experience, not watching a video.

Stay safe everybody,
BK.

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Tomer I April 12, 2015 at 10:26 am

Hi Guys,
My name is Tomer and I’m former chief security officer in the Israeli Shin Bet and also reserve Captain and team leader in a recon unit.
In the Israeli Tactical School, we teach individuals and units from different places on the globe.
In my opinion, the question what style is better has no real answer and probably ne.ver will, since there is no concrete quality data about regarding the techniques outcome.
assamptions are not facts. We review incidents for decades in the fight against terror and due to results (failors and wins) we developed our doctrine and adopt new ideas to the programs. The enemy doesnt stay still and the answers to him also
The only fact I know, is terrorists die from American bullets and Israelis bullets fighting the same fight against these terrorists.
If you want to really drill down to the ideas I suggest we should train togther and above all stop these narrow minded critisesm and lets treat each other with respect expected from one warrior to another. I’m adding here a video I made that explain some Active shooter simple ideas – have a safe training

Tomer I.
(202) 674-7255
http://www.israeliTactical.com
israeli.tactical@gmail.com
Washington DC

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jerry the geek March 12, 2016 at 07:28 pm

The ‘instructor’ in this video has been exceedingly creative in dreaming up new ways to add time to the crucial interval between perceiving a threat and actually putting bullets on target.

I would have dismissed the whole thing as satire, if it were not for the comments of so many people who seem to have taken its legitimacy for granted.
On second thought, I’m going back to the “Satire” theory.
So much for “Narrow Minded Criticism” (which is the correct way to spell it, I think), Tomer

Either way, it’s damned embarrassing to watch.

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yeah April 21, 2016 at 05:06 pm

Who cares. This 69 year old country can base its training on whatever it wants. The whole shit is going to fail anyway.

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Lew February 21, 2018 at 10:42 am

OK, I sincerely hope this was a comedy skit. Reminds me of a Monty Python piece. That was PATHETIC, Shooting Platform did not allow for ANY Tactical Movement off of the “X”. Straight up paper shooter. Lateral movement with a kneel, becoming stationary, to reload???? Perfect way to lose a gunfight. NOTHING here impressive.

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