Now Serving Forward Of The Muzzle Needs

Trident Tactical Solutions no only provides stern jostle on jostle training , but they also do this.  This shit… this shit right here:

“Please take gun safety seriously & do not attempt these drills.  We perform these drills to only prove what we train.  During out training videos we have medial personnel on standby.”

So the “runner” doesn’t have rounds in his handgun… cool story bros.

“During this video the steel target was fifteen feed from the runner, 5 feet behind, and turned at 25 degrees.”

HOW ON EARTH IS THIS NECESSARY?!  Please convince me there is just no other way this could have been done without live rounds and someone being in front of the muzzle.  Additionally, is it good to be so comfortable that you’re willing to go down range breaking the 180, going in front of live fire?  These are the type of derps that keep me up at night.

From overkill556x45 in the previous jostle post on these guys:

Ok. I was done commenting, but I watched another video. “Proper Magazine Exchange”. Mr Pike shoots ” 25 degrees” offset from another instructor, a distance of about five feet by his own description. Shooting LIVE ROUNDS at his co-instructor. Nope. Just nope. There’s no reason at all to do this. None. Massive risk for no reward. You could do the 21 foot drill with your co-instructor standing 90 degrees and rushing from a safe angle. Or just spend $250 on hardware store parts and build a 21-foot drill rolling target and have zero humans at risk. I’m pretty sure I’ve seen “Tueller Drill” target schematics online for free.This is another Sonny Puziakas accident waiting to happen.

Also, at the end of the jostling video, the student’s muzzle goes 180 degrees up to the sky. What if he’d cranked off a round–or even if there’d been a slamfire and a projectile left at a 30-degree angle? What if that bullet came down in the postman, or little Timmy, or someone’s windshield. Talk about a rectal exam! I hope you’re insured. This can’t end well. The “big-boy pants” argument doesn’t fly with me for either of these drills.

haha yea that’s what I’m thinking too. *smh*

The best part is that the conclusion of the video in this post is that – Looking down (away from your target) to change your magazine causes you to lose track of the threat.  Oh yea? No shit sherlock.  Did you really need to waste ammo and endanger a life to science that one? Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

Trident-Tactical-Solutions-Down-RangeI’m going to plug these guys again and say you should definitely hit up Trident Tactical Solutions if you like what you see in the video.  They will jostle you, they will serve your forward of the muzzle needs, and probably a lot of other needs you didn’t even know you had.

Thoughts?

Gat tip: overkill556x45, no uno

34 COMMENTS

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davan February 17, 2015 at 12:14 am

No, just…no

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Tanal74 February 17, 2015 at 01:58 am

“Please take gun safety seriously”…

Because they won’t and god knows someone needs to. I’m not even entirely sure what they were trying to prove that couldn’t have been accomplished with a stop watch or the ‘runner’ ya know…like…NOT down range.

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ENDO-Mike February 17, 2015 at 01:03 pm

Haha Yea. The best part was the conclusion was incredibly obvious and didn’t even need this video in the first places.

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Kestrelbike February 17, 2015 at 02:31 am

Any range worth a damn would ban these guys for life. (Alleged) SEAL or not.

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ENDO-Mike February 17, 2015 at 01:03 pm

Big boy ranges call for big boy rules bro haha jk

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overkill556x45 February 17, 2015 at 03:45 am

If there’s a response, I’m betting on the typical “Safety is for amateurs” speech. Fine. I’m an amateur. And my chances of acquiring new holes will remain really low. At least they didn’t have students do this. Still don’t know how this seemed like a good idea.

There could be a neat combined effort between this guy, Yeager, and Sonny. Cameramen, and instructors downrange— IN THE DARK!

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Tito February 17, 2015 at 05:02 am

You guys are amateurs. I like to do this drill with my shooting buddies after we get back from the bar. Then we jostle whoever is still able to stand after taking fire. Big boy rules. You guys wouldn’t understand…. Kidding of course. This is dumb as hell.

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ENDO-Mike February 17, 2015 at 01:01 pm

Haha post bar jostles followed by live fire is the best idea I’ve heard in a while.

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Smooth Operator February 17, 2015 at 05:08 am

Can’t this experiment be done with some blank firing guns or even dare I say airsoft?

Does having trained medical staff nearby and a stupid disclaimer justify running such an unsafe drill?

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ENDO-Mike February 17, 2015 at 01:01 pm

I’m with you on that Smooth

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skip11b February 17, 2015 at 05:25 am

the people that train exclusively live fire, don’t do shit like this. they might cross boundaries that that regular shooters find to be danger, but this information has been common knowledge for 35 or 40 years. This dude is pure dumb ass looking for YT hits and popularity. its obvious because he didn’t use any Israeli super tactics or have a camera man behind the “runner”

did he say somewhere that he was a SEAL?

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ENDO-Mike February 17, 2015 at 01:00 pm

Yes the dude says he’s a seal and can provide paperwork. I used to think that these types were looking for views, but it happens so often and flies under the radar for a while normally. I’m not convinced they actually think “training” and doing science like this is a good idea.

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MrMaigo February 17, 2015 at 06:59 am

Any reason the sound is only in the left channel?

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ENDO-Mike February 17, 2015 at 12:57 pm

An errant round probably took the right channel out hehe

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toadboy65 February 17, 2015 at 08:37 am

Ok- First, I discovered your site a couple of days ago, and have been binge reading ever since. Second, where are all these idiots coming from? They are posing as instructors, and doing horribly unsafe, and often silly techniques. It scares me that the uninitiated are going to emulate these people, and we are all going to be less safe. My background is military, so I don’t know much about these civilian faux-tactical instructor types. Is there not some sort of licensing organization, or is it just a free for all out there?

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ENDO-Mike February 17, 2015 at 12:54 pm

First off welcome to ENDO. I love hearing that people discover, then binge read :P. Secondly, there is an endless supply of idiots evidently. They come from all backgrounds and all countries. There’s always the battle that they know better than we do about safety (and vise versa). Videos get removed quite a bit due to butthurt but a bunch of us try and save them now.

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Tom in OK February 18, 2015 at 04:00 am

Gun enthusiasm unchecked can lead to the full-embrace of derp… through mockery this site has become a needed antidote for all the excesses of the weekend tactical operators who use weapon systems.

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Mr. Goose February 17, 2015 at 08:57 am

Look at the shooters shadow after the “perp” reaches the wall. He pointing directly at him lol.

But these range operators know what they’re doing right???

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ENDO-Mike February 17, 2015 at 12:55 pm

These ranges probably are told the big boy pros are coming today to train, so give them the room they need.

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Flagg February 17, 2015 at 11:45 am

Yeah, this is completely unacceptable. There are firearms safety rules for a reason.

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Sam W February 17, 2015 at 11:59 am

Seems like airsoft would be perfect to prove this concept. That way the runner could also shoot. Cost benefit analysis was not performed.

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ENDO-Mike February 17, 2015 at 12:56 pm

Haha Yea this exactly.

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raisedby_dogs February 17, 2015 at 12:50 pm

not for #basicinfantry

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ENDO-Mike February 17, 2015 at 12:56 pm

Hahah

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T February 17, 2015 at 01:10 pm

Supporting the troops, and one day the local hospital, and God forbid the cemetery.

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Brian L February 17, 2015 at 02:36 pm

If these guys used airsoft they’d get into a brawl like what was posted here the other day.

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JC February 17, 2015 at 06:05 pm

@3:36 would not withstand jostle

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Airborne February 17, 2015 at 08:42 pm

Ok, former SEAL, thats cool bro. I know Delta and other Tier 999 operators, including SEALs shoot live rounds in very close proximity to each other in training. However, that’s due to *necessity*, not to prove a point on YT that could be done with airsoft or other means (and sets a bad example for other non tier 999 operators). Delta and others do that shit because when you raid goddamn houses three times a day, you have to be 110 % comfortable handling your weapon in tight quarters. Cue Jim Carrey “like a glove”. Joe Schmoe, on the other hand, doesn’t raid any houses, period, and will probably see this retarded example and end up killing his buddy. Stunt for YT views, that’s all. Makes gun owners look like idiots. GJ. #Murica.

Also, only a SEAL would have “In Iraq his team successfully completed numerous Capture/Kill/Body snatch missions of known terrorist, weapon suppliers along the Iraq and Syrian border” on his bio page. My friends who went to SF selection and deployed, who did the same shit, are decidedly more low key. Have you seen a Green Beret movie lately? No? Exactly. Chalk it up to unit culture, I guess. I’m only tier 113, so what do I know…

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Casey February 17, 2015 at 10:27 pm

There’s a lot of derp out there, but I don’t have that big a problem with this video. I don’t know where the runner’s muzzle was pointed, but I would be more concerned about him pointing an “unloaded” weapon at the shooter than the shooter who at no time pointed a weapon at the runner. The runner could have used a bluegun with no effect on the point the drill was making.

Breaking 180 isn’t inherently unsafe as long as none of the fundamental four rules are violated (180 is gamer shit). Having done the Hackathorn “snake drill,” I believe that there is value in building one’s confidence in being able to safely shoot around a friendly. (I know that wasn’t the point of this drill, just clarifying that I understand the logic behind breaking 180.) Would I do something like this drill with beginners? No. This is something I would only do with competent shooters under the close supervision of qualified instructors and only after having run the drill dry and observing that the participants can safely complete the drill before introducing live ammo into the mix.

Could this have been done with, say, a SIRT trainer and just as effectively demonstrated the importance of maintaining situational awareness? Sure. But I’m tired of seeing the uproar that’s raised every time someone breaks a competition rule when training for real life.

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overkill556x45 February 18, 2015 at 03:37 am

If you watch the second reload, he ends up pointing at the runner, presumably with a hot gun.

The 180 is a problem because it was *up*. If Brian Williams isn’t there to bat the rounds down, you might end up sending a bullet where you don’t want a bullet. I agree you shouldn’t stick to 180 for real world training –provided you have a berm to keep the neighbors safe.

Shooting near your buddies isn’t necessarily wrong as long as everyone has armor and there’s a real, logical reason to do it. Stuff like this video is playing with fire. The “safety is for amateurs” mindset is going to get more people hurt.

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heavyfire7537 February 18, 2015 at 08:21 am

Its nice when you can see the guys legs so you know which wall he is hiding behind. I get the point, the way they demonstrate it is stupid.

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thebronze February 18, 2015 at 04:14 pm

This guy is sofa king stupid. I’m not buying for a minute that he was an ACTUAL SEAL, despite his dubious video showing his supposed DD214.

I messaged Craig Sawyer on facebook and he said he’s never heard of Jason Pike. I wonder if Don Shipley could verify him?

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thebronze February 18, 2015 at 04:20 pm

He definitely doesn’t come across as the sharpest tool in the shed (by virtue of how he writes).

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Agitator February 19, 2015 at 01:12 pm

Someone should definitely sic The Hair on this guy. Maybe send it to Don or Jonn Lilyea at TAH.

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