VICE Goes To Front Sight Firearms Training Facility

This place looks legit AF:

You might know front sight from their relentless internet advertising, or their front man Ignatius Pizza.  I’m assuming some of you may even have trained there.

This isn’t very interesting compared to a lot of other VICE documentaries.

You can check out the Front Sight website, but be warned Ignatius Pizza starts talking as soon as the page loads. *eye roll* internet newbs… Rule #6 – You NEVER have sound autoplay.

Hat tip: Krystian

38 COMMENTS

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Wolf November 25, 2012 at 12:26 am

DerpDerpNavySEALderp

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SittingDown November 25, 2012 at 03:32 am

LOL.

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Church November 25, 2012 at 09:14 pm

I almost stopped the video after that guy… lol

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hnl.flyboy November 28, 2012 at 11:11 pm

HA! I hope BUD/S instructors see this video…Looks like he almost has a double chin too. My bet is he’ll drop out before the first week is over.

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hnl.flyboy November 28, 2012 at 11:12 pm

He hasn’t even gone to boot camp yet, for christsakes…Holy fuck boot!

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Ryan C November 25, 2012 at 01:41 am

Their founder is a nut and a (alleged) scam artist. Front site people are like a strange cult on the internet, but they have managed some staying power which I suppose means that they can’t be incompetent in every way.

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stan November 25, 2012 at 08:32 am

I read somewhere he is a Scientologist.

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032125 November 25, 2012 at 01:49 am

I went there three times at the turn of the century and had a great time, and the training was great. The problem was that Piazza tried (I think with good intentions) to build an entire fucking city in the desert, based just around one gun school. That was a ridiculous investor jerk off fantasy, and it tarnished everything else they were doing right. That culty flavor is probably a side effect of people desperately trying to upsell gun training AND real estate.

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elephantrider November 26, 2012 at 09:03 am

I have read a lot of accounts of former Front Sight students who claim to get spammed with their training advertisements and offers. It sounds like a cult that you can’t get away from once you show up once. It’s as if they are trying to sell you and your family and friends a timeshare.

The one friend of mine that has actually gone clued me in to their screwball ‘get eveyone you know to come here’ pricing structure. Discounts for large groups on your birthday, discounts for family and friend plans, etc. I get why they push so hard to get students. They have a large facility and only make money when it is full. The place is ridiculous, they were/are pushing Springfield XDs for crying out loud (Sorry if you happen to own an XD).

Their training seems somewhat outdated, and who the hell knows anything about their instructors credentials. Some of the prices for their classes are crazy high. Taking all of that into account it seems like they prey on the unsuspecting, like journalists.

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032125 November 26, 2012 at 11:23 pm

Unless something has changed, everything you mentioned sounds like interwebz hyperbole. I had gotten a few emails from them but know how to click an unsubscribe button, so problem solved there. The XD wasn’t around when I went there, but they weren’t pushing anything else at the time (no worries, I have an old rail-less Sig P226).

I don’t know what about the training seems “outdated” but you’re the fifth or sixth person to mention that; what exactly is outdated? Maybe I’m outdated and don’t know what’s up, but the fundamentals haven’t changed, have they? Everybody says that but nobody offers specifics…

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SittingDown November 25, 2012 at 03:38 am

From video at 10:07: “Where’s my drugs, motherfucker! Here I come! You shot my friend! AAHHHHHH!! You missed me! Here I come! Drop the gun or I’ll kill this bitch!”

LOL. So he’s training drug dealers to protect their drugs from junkies?

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elephantrider November 26, 2012 at 09:03 am

All things you hear yelled out at a well run firearms class. Yeah right.

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Doug November 25, 2012 at 06:41 am

I liked the vid, and I’m glad they covered it in a favorable/neutral light. Vice’s journalist was a little less “journalistic” than I imagined he would be but he didn’t do a bad job. Thanks for posting it Mike.

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Hard_Harry November 25, 2012 at 08:28 am

I used to think of the Front Sight people as sort of the Hipsters of the gun/shooting world. “I’m so much better than you because I took a class at Front Sight” but now I think that has worn off to an extent because of all the other high speed ninja schools opening up and taking away a lot of their thunder. I see them now more as a cult like another poster pointed out.

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czbeardly November 25, 2012 at 08:29 am
dave w November 25, 2012 at 09:03 am

I cant wait for whatever apocalypse they are training for so i can shoot them mid roll.

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czbeardly November 25, 2012 at 09:11 am

Gonna run that barrel roll move by my IPSC examinator, I fully belive that is a legit move! Seeing it should be one of the most tactical operator moves _ever_ it should translate over to competitive shooting aswell.

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Doug November 25, 2012 at 11:31 pm

It’s the Ministry of Silly Rolls. I can’t think of one practical reason for rolling like that. Their all taking their sweet time with it too. When the SHTF, it’s going to happen a lot faster and you’ll be more mobile on your feet. Good find.

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ExurbanKevin November 25, 2012 at 09:48 am

Went there in January, mainly because I hadn’t seen a review of their training from someone’s who’s had training himself.

Bottom line, if you don’t know how to shoot, they’ll get you up to speed. But if you’re looking for new insights to improve upon what you already know, go somewhere else. There training is still hopelessly stuck in the mid-80’s. There’s better out there now.

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Kevin November 25, 2012 at 10:24 am

As a professional web developer their website needs to be flushed down the toilet.

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ExurbanKevin November 25, 2012 at 11:04 am

That was one of the reasons why I wanted to go there. Not only does their website smack of the 1990’s (and the worst of the 1990’s at that), but their email practices suck as well.

Could they actually be that busy, or is it all just a sham?

Well, the Monday morning after SHOT, they had 250 people in the door. On a Monday. How many more do they get in on the weekends? Don’t know. Hate ‘em or love ‘em, they are successful.

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Hard_Harry November 25, 2012 at 12:22 pm

Wouldn’t surprise me that they had that many out there right after SHOT. They were probably giving away freebie one day classes at SHOT, trying to get industry folks in there.

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ExurbanKevin November 25, 2012 at 03:01 pm

They had the same 250 people in the main building on Tuesday, too. If there were people taking advantage of the freebie, they showed up at a different time than the four-day classes. Seemed to be a LOT of repeat business: 1/4 to 1/3 of the students in my Four Day class had been there before.

I went once. That’s enough for me. Next up is a Combat Focus Shooting class in December.

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czbeardly November 25, 2012 at 11:28 am

Ok, for the theme of operators operating like operations, I found something better then ninjarolls on the ground: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lARYUDy8BNY&feature=youtu.be this just seems like a accident in waiting… If these guys has not been featured here before… I think they will get their 15 minutes of fame :p

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czbeardly November 25, 2012 at 11:31 am

Oh, and I forgot to post this. Piazza wants you to see this, but not try them at home (well, you know, shooting 5 inches from your buddies face can seem like fun and all…) http://www.ignatius-piazza-front-sight.com/2010/10/08/firearms-training-incredible-videos-and-my-comments/

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ENDO-Mike November 25, 2012 at 04:02 pm

Yea I posted those too, I must have named it something created because I can’t find it though.

*facepalm* at that link ignatius-piazza-front-sight.com

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ENDO-Mike November 25, 2012 at 03:57 pm

haha yea that’s a copy of the original video, which went poof shortly after I made fun of it. http://www.everydaynodaysoff.com/2011/08/15/synchronized-live-fire-training-for-operators/

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czbeardly November 25, 2012 at 04:46 pm

I really like your blog, it keeps me sane during work :D I tried to see if you had posted it before but could not find it. As one of those Swedes with wonky gunlaws, I use my license for competition (IPSC mainly, only way to get an AR here) but I love seeing stuff like this, and my friends in lawenforcment loves them even more ;)

I hope you never stop finding operators operating like there was no tomorrow!

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ENDO-Mike November 25, 2012 at 08:56 pm

Thanks buddy, glad you enjoy it here. Good to hear the bad laws aren’t weighing you down as much as the guy who make them likely hope they will.

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PJ November 25, 2012 at 01:23 pm

“You might know front sight from their relentless internet advertising”

Yep. See them here all the time lol. Anyone else ever think they picked that name hoping people would confuse them with Gunsite? Not saying anything negative about them, but those are pretty similar.

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Nogunz November 25, 2012 at 02:04 pm

Funny enough, I’m going to be taking a class there in December. Thanks for the review…a little surprised vice was the one covering it though.

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enfieldem2 November 25, 2012 at 02:14 pm

Boy you ain’t kidding when you use the words relentless Internet advertising. I have seen front site ads on the website of Ted Rall, if you don’t know who that is he is essentially a militant communist editorialist and cartoonist.

Yet he does not consider himself antigun.

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Sprice November 25, 2012 at 04:47 pm

I have gone there a few times; I got a membership so it’s nice just paying for food, travel, and ammo (membership was free from a friend!). It’s totally worth it though. Ignatius is a freak and I thought it was a scam or a cult at first (really he ruins the school with his face pasted everywhere imo) but I’ve never actually met him. The instructors I’ve had have all been great and my friends that actually paid for the membership (including the memberships I bought for my brothers) all agree that it’s great for the money. I’m current Air Force and my Father is a current Army colonel. He says that in 2 days there he received more training for the Beretta 92 series than in his whole ~25 years of military experience (including various tours to Iraq).

To sum it up: Good training, possibly best for the price; even though the owner is a little off.

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032125 November 25, 2012 at 06:17 pm

He was the lead instructor when I went there in about 2000; has he become like Oz or something?

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Church November 25, 2012 at 09:15 pm

I think front sight needs to be taken with a grain of salt. It’s only worth it if you purchase one of their deals from someone who is already a member… Otherwise it’s all but a ripoff.

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jpcmt November 26, 2012 at 11:31 pm

Wow that was a very poor video – not the quality so much, but the content. The students all demonstrating various disciplines or none at all, the gun law and 2A FUD being parroted by the ignorant, lots of ridiculous macho-man talk “You will not rise to the occasion..you will fight like you train”….”I’ve never been in combat” so naturally the slow talking retard trainer Bishop knows what he’s talking about and everyone eats it up because they got this $30 coupon for training in the desert and love to be barraged with spam from the ‘millionaire patriot’ who was good at 3 gun. This seems like a place to go to shoot but not a place for good training.

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mmc December 5, 2013 at 04:22 pm

Front Sight Firearms Training

I have looked over the above posts, and, as there are several that over one or two years old, I will discount them. I have attended programs at Front Sight since 2009. It is 2013, and I just booked a skill builder session for March 2014 to coincide with a subsequent Vegas Trade show within my industry.
To clear the deck here…..if you have not been to Front Sight, then check your comments as they are not accurate. You ex-military posting here…you should know better than to comment without observed facts. Especially anyone with prior specwar affiliations, any branch.

The training provided to all attendees, regardless of prior experience, is first rate. I have attended weekends of as few as 245 “students” and as many as 600. All walking around armed open carry. Not a single episode or accident during my visits there. (annual, some years twice annually). Everyone checks in and checks their firearms in with staff, very organized and moves well. Problems detected early (hand load ammunition, modified trigger pull, etc.) is dealt with right away. Pack it back in your vehicle or leave. No exceptions. No one removes a firearm from the hip holster, (and only a hip holster) no one at no time, ever except on command on the firing line. If you do, there are multiple people with very quick reflexes and requisite training, who will escort you to the front gate and say goodbye. Again, no questions asked, nothing personal. Just the need to keep hundreds of student customers safe. You will learn, and if you are experienced, you will improve. To that end, Front Sight is unique and members and visitors are inspired with each visit. Ignaitus is and should be proud of what they have accomplished. Thank God for States like Nevada, (and Texas, Montana, etc.) Notice I did not say NY or NJ or CT???? F—–them, even if I reside in NE United States.
As for Ignaitus’s marketing……well, I will leave that for others to analyze. I am a business person who understands and is also good at self-promoting. He takes it to higher levels. But, you have to generate cash to survive, never mind grow. Think of all the gyms and fitness centers around this Country. They have to continue to sell and push memberships, even if over-sold. That is the business plan. Front Sight is not over-sold, as there are no max-capacity parameters. When a course/date is full it is full and sold out. That’s it. Try again next week.
About instructors….there were some earlier posts regarding “dated training or questionable instructors qualifications. Let me shed some light here. I have trained with ex-military trainers, a California Dept. of Corrections official with 40 years experience, an ex-banker (product of the party of 2008) a catering chef/planner with former law enforcement experience, and several range assistants that were products of Front Sight itself. And many others including the founder. The training provided was consistent across the spectrum and aside from personalities, there is little difference as everyone follows the same plan and schedule.
I would challenge anyone regardless of experience, to attend a program (two or four day) and not come away a better citizen, and better prepared, for it.

Regards,

Mark

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Dave March 31, 2014 at 11:08 am

Interesting comments. All in all I believe Mark is spot on but I’ll add a bit more. Being a Front Sight Legacy Member (training paid for until the end of time) I wish to add that in the many (MANY) states that issue concealed carry permits there is MINIMAL training requirements and NO training refresher requirements. Read – most of those with a concealed permit maintain minimal skills levels AND I’ve met many that were not at all skilled with their carry sidearm of choice. I, for one, am happy to see this training offered to the public. It means a safer environment for all – except those that would do you harm. If one doesn’t like their marketing then feel free to set up some compitition and figure another way to advertise and finance the operation. Good luck! Regards to all, Dave

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