ATF And The Sig Sauer SB15 Brace

Real talk from therealTrippleB:

TheRealTrippleB-YouTube0:09 – ROFL “The HNIC of all things that go boom…”  *me, chokes on popcorn*

Man this guy drops so much knowledge.  Granted I didn’t look up any of it for myself… but I’m just trusting he’s not misleading because I know if he was you guys would chime in.

The whole idea of SBR / rifle / pistol classifications is just useless in the first place.  A lot of people are pretty mad they have a useless SB15 on their hands now.

Thoughts?

Gat tip: All you guys who sent the tip about the SB15 news when it happened. I was just waiting for a summary like this to come out before I made a post.

34 COMMENTS

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jeff January 21, 2015 at 04:31 am

all those people mad because they bought a pistol brace should have known better.
what moron didnt think this was going to happen?

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Dale Smith January 21, 2015 at 05:45 am

^^And then there’s morons that don’t understand the law or Constitution.

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thepaddle January 21, 2015 at 09:15 pm

“Thank you sir, may I have another?!” – jeff

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Arnie January 24, 2015 at 06:46 am

I don’t agree with how the ATF handled this and calling folks morons never helps. But, uh, c’mon guys, let’s face the fact that this is why everyone bought one of these. It’s practically purpose built. Someone down below mentioned bump fire. Oh, no doubt, once I saw that I knew it would only be a matter of time.

Still, saying that does not change that I don’t like it. Just sayin’.

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JoelC January 21, 2015 at 05:12 am

I completely disagree with the previous comment. People that bought these are not morons. There were 2 letters from the ATF. The initial letter of approval, and the second was a letter specifically stating that shouldering a brace does not constitute “Remanufacture or redesign” of the brace. I suppose you would say if people want to buy an Izmash AK(which was specifically banned from import but are still available for sale from the quantity brought over before ban), you would say that they are morons because they may one day be banned.

Before people go talking about how “You just need to fill the paperwork and get a real SBR” dont forget that many states specifically ban SBRs. My home state of Illinois bans SBRs, unless you are a C&R FFL. Even so, the law says they have to be registered personally(Not as part of a NFA trust). Even with the law being that specific, a good friend of mine was told by his ATF contact(he is an FFL dealer) that all SBR requests are on hold because they were told by Democrat members of the state legislature that this law would be reviewed and changed sometime. I’ve yet to find any IL people who have been approved and this was passed around 2 years ago.

I am waiting to see the ATF use old youtube videos to start prosecuting. Look for this “Redesign” excuse to get around the Ex Post Facto part of our constitutional bill of rights. I didn’t used to think like this, but the older I get, the more I feel that the government wants to make everyone criminals so that they can just prosecute who they will. With 10K+ of new rules and regulations created by US bureaucracies every year, it is currently estimated that the average US citizen breaks 3 felonies a day.

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Dale Smith January 21, 2015 at 05:49 am

It’s estimated that every citizen unknowingly commits at least one felony per year. I don’t have a link. My google is broke.

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Stan Darsh January 21, 2015 at 06:02 pm
Dale Smith January 22, 2015 at 08:19 am

Yep. According to that page I’ve committed multiple felonies by calling in sick to go to have a “fun-day” in the middle of the week.

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Stan Darsh January 21, 2015 at 06:04 pm

“Did you really think we want those laws observed?” said Dr. Ferris. “We want them to be broken. You’d better get it straight that it’s not a bunch of boy scouts you’re up against… We’re after power and we mean it… There’s no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren’t enough criminals one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What’s there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced or objectively interpreted – and you create a nation of law-breakers – and then you cash in on guilt. Now that’s the system, Mr. Reardon, that’s the game, and once you understand it, you’ll be much easier to deal with.”

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Todd S January 21, 2015 at 12:50 pm

Best line: “Jamz were the shiiiit!”

And he’s right. Both on the Jamz and the law.

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Ray January 21, 2015 at 01:16 pm

Everybody knew that BATFEIEIO was goin’ to do this. Just like anybody with a functional brain knows that sooner or later the BATFEIEIO will outlaw Tannerite and the Bumpski stock. ITS WHAT THEY DO. They set gun owners up to do things that are “legal” , change the “law” with the stroke of the pen, and then ether confiscate the weapon or product without compensation, or send the new “outlaw” to FCI when they don’t comply, AND THEY HAVE DONE THIS FOR DECADES. The men (and almost everyone who falls for it ARE men) who keep falling for this may not be stupid, but they show an inability to learn from the past , a tendency to follow any and every new gun/tacticool fad, and a distinct lack of emotional and mental maturity. They are at best childish and at their worst the kindest thing to call them is “special”. BATFE depends on this level “gun owner” dumbassary to justify the continued flow of stolen federal money.

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hydepark January 21, 2015 at 06:32 pm

“If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.” -Samuel Adams

Enjoy yoself!

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Dale Smith January 22, 2015 at 08:26 am

^^^Truth

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Dale Smith January 22, 2015 at 08:24 am

Yeah sure, just go along with it, because you know it’s going to happen. Kind of like rape. Even though it’s wrong, why fight it? I mean, it’s the girl’s fault for dressing sexy anyway. Who cares if she thinks it’s fun and it’s what she wants to do. She’s immature and knew rape was a possibility. It doesn’t matter what the law says.

What a little bitch. Have fun licking their boots when they put them on your throat.

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ThereIFixedIt January 22, 2015 at 10:41 am

I fixed it for you.

“BATFE depends on this level, “gun owner” submission to continue the flow of unconstitutional regulations.”

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ENDO-Mike January 22, 2015 at 11:20 am

Haha BATFEIEIO. Awesome.

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Tom in MKE January 21, 2015 at 01:22 pm

Informative, but I couldn’t get over how in some of the video his face was in focus & some parts were not. Autofocus is bad people.

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JohnnyIShootStuff January 22, 2015 at 03:49 am

His audio was also a bit off for using a lav mic.

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bull January 21, 2015 at 02:22 pm

the most horrible thing with tis is that according to this “redesign” philosophy using a ordinary pistol with two hands makes it a SBR or AOW!!! fucking stupid…

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Quasimofo January 21, 2015 at 04:18 pm

A disappointing, confusing, and unsurprising determination. It’s not the first time they’ve done a 180, too. SIG released a fairly milquetoast response to the letter. Like bull mentioned, using the ATF’s “reasoning” a 2-handed grip on a pistol could land you in federal pound-you-in-the-ass prison. Just remember the First Rule of Having Fun: Don’t get caught having fun.

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matt RRC January 21, 2015 at 06:37 pm

They decided the SIG Brace can be illegal and 7n6 is armor piercing all within 6 months! Good job ATF!

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hextone January 25, 2015 at 08:08 am

So what’s the deal with green tips?

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derpy sir derp January 21, 2015 at 06:48 pm

How does it feel to live in a country were China has more authority over the running of the government then you do?

… yeah. It doesn’t feel good.

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curiousg January 26, 2015 at 07:12 am

Then you do … What comes next? The sentence terminated abruptly.

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JohnnyIShootStuff January 22, 2015 at 03:48 am

You guys are missing the bigger thing here. The ATF is going to go after the bumpfire stocks next under the justification that the stock modifies the intended function of the rifle. Think I’m crazy? Elections have consequences and we’re going to have a hell of time over the next 700 days.

Going on my soapbox, you should vote in every election. There’s no excuse for skipping an election. I’m parsing through a municipal voter roll right now, and it’s sad how little people show up at the ballot box. The people who bitch and complain the most tend to vote the least.

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derpy sir derp January 22, 2015 at 05:20 am

Ok. Thanks for the hat tip.

Since the Republicans won 9 seats in the last election and now ATF has ruled this way the only conclusion I can draw is that Republicans are the party of gun control. I will, from now on, heavily encourage every person I meat to vote Democrat exclusively. It’s the only way we can save the second amendment.

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Dale Smith January 22, 2015 at 08:11 am

Or to vote for a Libertarian, like many of us young, former, Republicans do now.

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TheBear January 22, 2015 at 11:07 am

Word.

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JohnnyIShootStuff January 22, 2015 at 09:55 am

It would be good if you understood how regulatory agencies worked and how they can make law by powers delegated by congress.

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JoelC January 22, 2015 at 10:18 am

I agree with you Johnny but…

I think it is the primaries and local election that really need to be focused on(Local elections is how most people that make it to the senate and congress start).

Primaries get neglected and then people complain that there aren’t any real choices in the general election. They are correct. Pay attention. Keep in contact. Find people with principles. People need to remember: “You get exactly the government you deserve.”

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JohnnyIShootStuff January 22, 2015 at 05:19 pm

I agree with you 100%. What gets me the most is people who sit out and then later bitch. As much as people say they want there to be a 3rd party, there won’t be. First, those people don’t show up at the polls, so a third party candidate doesn’t have a chance. Second, it’s much easier to transform a party than start a new one. Look at what the big statist liberals did. They primaried and chased out the southern democrats and blue dogs. The blue dogs were done when BHO won in 2008. It’s far easier to elect guys like Justin Amash from an established party than it is to get a libertarian elected. Speaking of libertarian party, when have they last won an election or even been able to raise money? I can tell you this. The township I live in has just about 4000 registered voters. There are fewer than 20 libertarians registered here. As for who votes, and never misses an election.. Of those of us born in the 70’s there’s three of us. No one born in the 80’s is a 100% voter. What’s that say? The people who have the most to lose are the least likely to come to the polls and vote. They sure as hell aren’t running for office.

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T. January 22, 2015 at 09:50 pm

I find it amusing how these opinion letters send shockwaves through the shooting community and everyone into a panic. The ATF doesn’t need to go out into the world and prosecute anyone at all. Why even bother leaving your office when the gun-owning public comes right to your doorstep, begging for your wisdom, eager to spread your gospel all throughout the land? All you have to do is wait for somebody to ask, which they inevitably will, then just fire up Microsoft Word, spend 30 minutes pounding out a letter to ONE party, and drop it in the mail on your way to lunch. The shooting community will happily go and do all your intimidating for you. It’s f’ing brilliant!

These letters are a nice glimpse into the mind of the ATF, but they aren’t law (regardless of what video dude thinks). They’re *opinions*, with no more legal weight than an opinion letter from a private practice attorney. The ATF still has to convince a judge just like every other law enforcement agency in America. And they have failed in that endeavor before.

Of course the ATF can swing their considerable weight around and make your life hell before you ever get to a judge. But that’s an entirely different subject, and certainly not unique to the ATF. Law enforcement of all flavors has been doing that for centuries.

Just live your life with some common sense and stop giving these clowns power over you that they don’t have.

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Brian January 23, 2015 at 11:47 am

+1

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hextone January 25, 2015 at 09:33 am

Perfect example of worthless rules that will keep honest people honest, and those with malicious/ criminal intent will continue to not give a f—.

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