Complex Knife Maneuvers And Shooting

I take all my advice strictly from dudes who wear backpacks and infidel hat / t-shirt combos:

Is it realistic to train for a 15 point knife attack on a stationary target?  When someone gets stabbed is their first reaction is to stand completely still and take all the remaining slices and stabs?

1:38 – That ankle roll! Rough terrain bro.  I love the roll transition to reload *slow clap*.

4:01 – Always remove the target’s hat after you kill them.  It’s just courtesy.

Why is pretty much everyone wearing a backpack in this video?  The video was from 2010, so maybe the backpack was the hot “cool guy” item then.  Also that look like the roughest shooting range I’ve ever seen.  Yes I understand training on clean concrete in an air conditioned building probably isn’t as valuable as training on rocks and sticks, but I’m sure there is a more enjoyable middle ground.

Sayoc-Tactical-Group-TrainingSayoc Tactical Group are the guys in the video, who you can talk to to train like this if you’re interested.

Thoughts?

Gat tip: no uno

26 COMMENTS

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yallan April 30, 2015 at 01:24 am

Nice tactical fat pack he’s carrying too, food is not always available.

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jeff April 30, 2015 at 04:10 am

one word … and only one word comes to mind………..DERP !!!!

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Steveweiser April 30, 2015 at 06:54 am

Lame

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Sam W April 30, 2015 at 07:21 am

It reminds me so much of this except not as cool https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAU33jYa-yE

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Vitsaus April 30, 2015 at 08:23 am

They’re missing Molon Labe somewhere on their attire.

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ZBalentine April 30, 2015 at 12:30 pm

Moron Label.

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Bruh Bruh April 30, 2015 at 02:04 pm

Thats good stuff right there.

“Lets review the first eight” – is this combat training or a fight sequence for a movie?! I dont feel anyone could make it past the first 3 steps without having to change the plan.

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triggernoob April 30, 2015 at 02:23 pm

And mofos paid for that training too. Can’t even.

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achmed April 30, 2015 at 02:35 pm

Training in Fred Sanford’s back yard. Yeah that place looks rough.

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Ross April 30, 2015 at 03:03 pm

I love shooting into rocks. Also really dig the 3 dead bodies stacked up targets. “Shoot em when they’re down, two extra rounds to make sure!”

Poor knife skills during a pistol class, and terrible errors not being immediately corrected when it’s a 1-on-1 teaching moment?

Refund please.

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heavyfire7537 April 30, 2015 at 07:13 pm

SMH

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JohnnyIShootStuff April 30, 2015 at 08:01 pm

Tactical snack bags

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Car Ramrod April 30, 2015 at 09:02 pm

Gosh this knife shit is so stupid. Acting like he wouldn’t need diet coke break on the off chance he would have the energy to even pull the knife, let alone complete the 100 step human mutilation process that he saw once in this awesome anime show.

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elephantrider April 30, 2015 at 09:14 pm

Sayoc Tactical, ughh. The heavy set guy is Tom Kier, head honcho of Sayoc Tactical Group, knife training guru/buddy to Kyle Defoor, and big shot in the Sayoc Kali world. Tom, STG, and Sayoc Kali in general have a near cult like following with their students. As most of you pointed out the flaw with the Sayoc Kali training is that it is pure knife fight fantasy stuff. Nobody is going to stand still while you work your 20 point knife kata on them, and they use standing “control” moves that control nothing. I think they really mis-represent and blur the role of the knife as a defensive tool by teaching with their “flow” drills where attacks are parried and countered like some sort of kung-fu movie (think the movie ‘The Hunted’ b/c Tom Kier consulted on and choreographed that one).

More mind boggling is Kyle Defoor’s involvement with him. I mostly like what Kyle teaches with respect to firearms training, as it seems very practical and reality based. Kinda perplexes me that he is so into the STG training for the reasons stated above. I’m sure Tom and Kyle have shared “expertise,” and now Tom teaches handgun in addition to knife only classes. There was some real mediocre to crappy shooting by the students in that video, so it would have been nice to see what was actually being taught or corrected. The array of targets on the ground seems like pure clown shoes.

I attended one Sayoc Kali and had zero interest in it afterwards. I’m sure if you kept at it and keep shelling out for the classes you will eventually build some decent knife skills, but the whole thing just seems very unrealistic and a long slow road to learn anything useful. I’ve heard that some schools are constantly hitting up their students to take more and more classes and seminars to learn the “good stuff” and get to the next level of training. I suspect a lot of it is an opportunistic money grab taking advantage of the unsuspecting, or those that are fully bought in. When it comes to knife skills, I’ve found the Shivworks/South Narc Reverse Edge Methods to be a much more reality based straight line path to building defensive knife competency.

Rant over.

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Kym May 1, 2015 at 03:04 am

If you have knocked about with various training, any thoughts about Michael Janich’s Martial Blade Concepts curriculum?

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elephantrider May 2, 2015 at 01:19 am

I know nothing of it, so I cannot comment on it.

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jim bob May 1, 2015 at 03:05 pm

my issue with them, is their promoting carrying like 48 knives at any one time. I don’t know if they still do that, but it was idiotic advice for NYC (they were Queens based). you get arrested for your clip showing (“brandishing” ) and if the cop can open it one handed it becomes a “gravity knife”. they promote carrying fixed blade which is NYC illegal, in these ridiculous rigs and shoulder holsters.

anything they say might be useful, but i am inclined to tune them out based on the above. knife fantasy inclinations probably wont have anything hidden in it.

and a lot of their guys are samoan levels of heavy.

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elephantrider May 2, 2015 at 01:24 am

True, true, and true. Carry at least 2 short swords, a couple back-up swords, and several knives for when things get real dicey.
Uhhhh, making a note, to never visit NYC.
Yes, Sayoc stuff is really not worth sifting through to glean any useful information from.
As for the fat guy stuff, the founder Chris Sayoc is Hover Round/Lark level fat. That right there should tell you something.

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vdmsr May 1, 2015 at 03:26 pm

how does one attend “one Sayoc kali”

I don’t even know what kind of unit of measurement that is.

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elephantrider May 2, 2015 at 01:18 am

Ii is very simple. First you attend one Sayoc Kali class. Second, when typing about it you make a typo that leaves out the word “class.” Understand, or is that too far of a leap for you?

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tincankilla May 1, 2015 at 02:40 pm

Pull up to site, see fat trainer with tactical outfit, put in reverse, drive to range.

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Jon Hutto May 2, 2015 at 07:17 am

Knife attacks are super fast.. Most of the time it’s someone just using an icepick move on whatever body part they can, or someone from behind. Time is brief.

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QuackerJack May 2, 2015 at 12:30 pm

elephant rider hit the nail on the head. Had some friends who trained with Tom and almost dropped the dough on that class myself. Afterwards we got into Southnarc’s coursework and never looked back. Kier’s supposedly doing contract training for squirrelly gov’t snake eater groups. Maybe that’s why Kyle and others maintain a cultish reverence for him, but who knows. Either way, the derp is strong in this video and should tell you all you need to know.

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Hank May 2, 2015 at 07:31 pm

I doubt if fatso would last long in a real knife fight.

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derpy sir derp May 3, 2015 at 12:14 am

If you want to know how to knife fight… learn from people who actually have fought with knives and survive. And it shouldn’t be a surprise to anybody with half a brain that you need to go to prison to find these people. They do talk and some are willing to even teach.

Here is how a real-life knife-fighter fights:

How do you hold the knife?

You grip the knife tightly with a hammer-style grip, point out. That is like you hold a hammer… fingers and thumb wrapped around the knife. This gives you the most strength and maximum reach.

What stance do you use?

Hold the knife closely to your strong side. Use your weak hand to ward off the attacker. Feet apart, athletic pose. If you can try to obscure his view with holding something in your weak hand so they can’t see when you are about to strike. You want to keep your knife hand close to your body and away from them so they don’t get a chance to grab your arm. It is best to start murdering them before they get a chance to react so pulling out the knife while it is obscured by your body or your clothing is a good tactic.

How to stab? what part of the body to stab?

Stab with a straightforward jabbing motion. Straight in, straight out. Center body mass, especially the soft portions. You have to stab quickly in and out with great force to get maximum penetation, and maximum leverage to pull it back out. This will prevent any chance that the defender will be able to grab your arm/hand that you are using to stab them with and reduce any chance you will not be able to retreive the weapon out of their body. Do not try to get fancy. Do not try to slice or go side to side… this will allow them time to grab your strong side arm and chances of debilitating injuries to the defender is small. Just go in and out as fast and as hard as you can. If they try to grab at you while you are doing that chances are you will just slice into their hand and they won’t be able to grab anything ever again. You will be able to stab them several times a second with this approach and once blood loss sets in then you can finish them off at your leasure.

How to defend yourself against a knife attack?

In order of preference:

1. Run away. If you are not within arms reach then they can’t hurt you.

2. If you have a gun shoot them. Preferably while they are not anywhere close to you.

3. If you are trapped in a enclosed space with a knife against a experienced attacker using above techniques… Chances are you will get permenant injury and probably slowly bleed to death even if you “win”. Strength, violence, determination, and mindset will determine the victor.

4. If you are trapped in a enclosed space without a weapon…. you will probably die if they really intend to murder you. Put your back against the wall and use your feet to kick at their legs to prevent them from closing in far enough that they can attack your vitals and then pray for a miracle. A miracle like the attacker is trying to use techniques he learned from the guy in the video.

What I outlined above is ‘American prison-style knife fighting’ and it has been honed with over a hundred years of real-life combat experience and passed down from survivors from one generation to survivors of the next. It’s not a ritualistic cultural artifact or some sport.. it’s how you fight to win by killing the other person.

If you are looking to take lessons in knife fighting from somebody the first question you should ask is ‘How many people have you managed to murder so far?”. If they say none then they are probably living in a fantasy land. A knife is a terrible defensive weapon. It’s only really effective when attacking unsuspecting victims.

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Huch May 5, 2015 at 11:05 am

The most painful part of that video was the guy at 1:28 recording in portrait mode.

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